2013 Korean Grand Prix

[raymondu999]

I'm interested in seeing the start. Past two years, the dirty side has had better launch grip

[Juzh]

What's happening with mercs in 1st sector? Looks like they have some serious drag on that car.

For comparison:
2010 pole 1:35.585
2013 pole 1:37.202

This "modern" F1 is a joke.

Let wings and floor flex, build a huge second deck for the diffuser and let the exhausts blow it directly and you make the cars 2s faster garanteed.

Well yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. The current formula is way too much regulated and restrictive which in turn makes the cars a lot slower.

[Spacepace]

What's happening with mercs in 1st sector? Looks like they have some serious drag on that car.

For comparison:
2010 pole 1:35.585
2013 pole 1:37.202

This "modern" F1 is a joke.

Let wings and floor flex, build a huge second deck for the diffuser and let the exhausts blow it directly and you make the cars 2s faster garanteed.

And the track has shifted quite a lot since then because it was built on a swamp

[SectorOne]

Good drive by Vettel and Hamilton, they seemed to get everything out of the car.
Hopefully it´s a dog fight tomorrow, i think if Hamilton can get past Vettel into S2 then he could hold Vettel hostage for the whole race (possibly).

[f1universe]

Good drive by Vettel and Hamilton, they seemed to get everything out of the car.
Hopefully it´s a dog fight tomorrow, i think if Hamilton can get past Vettel into S2 then he could hold Vettel hostage for the whole race (possibly).

I have zero hopes, Hamilton is not aggressive enough at the starts against Vettel in my opinion, I hope he prove me wrong and he wins the race [-o<

[Neno]

IMHO, all the pressure at the start is on Gro.. He's been a "good boy" this year so hopefully that will continue in to turn 1 and not take out Hamilton.

He will take out whoever he wants to and dont blame him for trying

[Gerhard Berger]

What's happening with mercs in 1st sector? Looks like they have some serious drag on that car.

For comparison:
2010 pole 1:35.585
2013 pole 1:37.202

This "modern" F1 is a joke.

Let wings and floor flex, build a huge second deck for the diffuser and let the exhausts blow it directly and you make the cars 2s faster garanteed.

2010 also effectively had unlimited DRS through the F-duct.

[Joie de vivre]

Good drive by Vettel and Hamilton, they seemed to get everything out of the car.
Hopefully it´s a dog fight tomorrow, i think if Hamilton can get past Vettel into S2 then he could hold Vettel hostage for the whole race (possibly).

I have zero hopes, Hamilton is not aggressive enough at the starts against Vettel in my opinion, I hope he prove me wrong and he wins the race [-o<

it's not that hamilton is not aggresive, it's just mercedes is rubbish at the starts

[SectorOne]

I have zero hopes, Hamilton is not aggressive enough at the starts against Vettel in my opinion, I hope he prove me wrong and he wins the race [-o<

The key for me here is the two straights. He just needs to be first into S2 and i think the bad wake and the high speed superiority of the Merc there will cause issues for Vettel potentially making him vulnerable from behind.

The only issue will be last sector and main straight where the Red Bull has the edge.
I´m hoping for something we saw in Silverstone where the high speed nature kept Vettel in his place.

[wda04]

Ferrari race pace looks really bad? Reckon they are hiding something? Kimi is right at the top too

[iotar__]

IMHO, all the pressure at the start is on Gro.. He's been a "good boy" this year so hopefully that will continue in to turn 1 and not take out Hamilton.

What does it even mean? I on the contrary hope he chops Vettel, pushes Hamilton off the track, forces collision with Alonso and slows him down, rear ends Raikkonen and forces him to cut the corner (if that's even possible from the grid position perspective ) - preferably in one move . How about that? Is everyone here overdosing on Coulthard/Brundle nonsense? You should be more worried about Hamilton not messing up the start again and cutting corners, sometimes you can get away with that, god knows why (Monza) and sometimes you can't (Singapore).

[Juzh]

I have zero hopes, Hamilton is not aggressive enough at the starts against Vettel in my opinion, I hope he prove me wrong and he wins the race [-o<

The key for me here is the two straights. He just needs to be first into S2 and i think the bad wake and the high speed superiority of the Merc there will cause issues for Vettel potentially making him vulnerable from behind.

The only issue will be last sector and main straight where the Red Bull has the edge.
I´m hoping for something we saw in Silverstone where the high speed nature kept Vettel in his place.

Merc have no high speed superiority in korea at all. They've got a silly amount of wing and drag on that car to be able to keep up with RB in twisty stuff, but have sacrificed bucket loads of straight line speed in the process. Even if hamilton can somehow lead into lap 2 I can't see him being in front of vettel for very long.
RW comparison
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/8872/sc1j.gif

Some other stuff:
Really nice piece from ted kravitz
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBqKo6pg-yY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGjkPUfhECQ[/youtube]

[SectorOne]

Merc have no high speed superiority in korea at all. They've got a silly amount of wing and drag on that car to be able to keep up with RB in twisty stuff, but have sacrificed bucket loads of straight line speed in the process.

In the same way the Red Bull sheds downforce to gain on straights. It´s all about priorities here.

Mercedes strength´s are downforce in the high speed bits and top speed.
Red Bull´s are less drag, better traction and acceleration.

These two configurations were separated by 2 tenths at the end of the day.
They go about their business in two different ways so it´s quite a child argument to say "they got a silly amount of wing and drag to be able to keep up with the Red Bull in the twisty stuff.

S1 traction, acceleration, drag.
S2 downforce
S3 mechanical grip, acceleration, traction.

[Juzh]

Why would it be childish? What's with the condescending attitude? Seems like they DO need that silly amount of wing to keep up with RB in DF stuff (when RB is not using one, like this weekend). When RB bolted their ultra high DF wing in hungary vettel was 5/10 up on hamilton in 2nd sector on one of his laps in Q3(but not fastest lap). That's beside the point anyway.
RB are strong in S3 which leads onto 2 drs zones where RB are again a lot faster than mercs. If ham does jump vet i bet you any money he wont be able to keep him behind. Their 2 clicks top speed advantage will do them no good without drs.

[SectorOne]

Why would it be childish? What's with the condescending attitude? Seems like they DO need that silly amount of wing to keep up with RB in DF stuff

It seems you don´t really understand that if you have more downforce, you lose out in other areas.
If you choose less drag, you lose out in other areas.
If Mercedes cuts back on downforce they will be quicker on straights, it´s quite basic stuff so when you say things like "just to be able to keep up" (which makes no sense since it´s Red Bull that´s trying to keep up with Mercedes in the high speed stuff)
It sounds like a child argument.

Similar to saying "RBR are cutting back on downforce just to "keep up" with Mercedes top speed.
I mean wtf does that even mean. They have different priorities, different ways of doing things, RBR won this time, congratulations to them.

When RB bolted their ultra high DF wing in hungary vettel was 5/10 up on hamilton in 2nd sector on one of his laps in Q3(but not fastest lap). That's beside the point anyway.

And yet you felt compelled to bring it up even though you acknowledge it´s irrelevant.
I could bring up Silverstone, the all out high speed high downforce track on the calendar and point out how destroyed Red Bull was in low fuel.
It´s quite irrelevant though.

RB are strong in S3 which leads onto 2 drs zones where RB are again a lot faster than mercs.

And what have i been saying? I think i said exactly that.

If ham does jump vet i bet you any money he wont be able to keep him behind. Their 2 clicks top speed advantage will do them no good without drs.

This is your opinion, just like i had mine but the reason this conversation started was because you said the Merc is not quicker in the twisties when it actually is.

I´m not even sure why this conversation exists to be honest.