2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

[Mandrake]

Sorry but I can't see Hamilton getting pole. Red Bull have been very effective in recent races, and Suzuka is one of their favorite tracks. Vettel pole/win.

Yes they have, but the circuits where fast corner aero is needed they were fighting the mercs. And the Mercs are always good at qualifying. Surely, Suzuka was a RB7 track, but is it still a RB9 track?

[iotar__]

I think Merc can do it, if they could in Spa why not here (qualifying at least)?

Slightly more can depend on a driver so if it's close it can play the part. Closest track: Silverstone + mediums (different). Red Bull are favourites but if it's Merc it's not going to be a huge surprise. Lotus - unknown with different tyre combo but should be OK, Ferrari same as in previous ones and a bit better in the race.

Considering how those "exciting tyre strategies" panned out in Korea with supersofts, it's going to be a snoozefest.

[Chuckjr]

Sorry but I can't see Hamilton getting pole. Red Bull have been very effective in recent races, and Suzuka is one of their favorite tracks. Vettel pole/win.

+1

Hamilton himself said in Korea last week that Red Bull have AT LEAST a 2 second advantage over Merc. That could increase in Japan due to the asphalt smoothness/interplay with the car which offers even more grip for the RB, and then Vettle loves the track--which will only make him faster (just like Canada for Ham).

Vettle pole.
Vettle win.

[SamH123]

2 seconds???
It was about 3 tenths in quali and maybe 5-6 tenths in the race
Mercedes race previews sounded pretty positive, they think the track will suit them.
Maybe I'm mad given Vettel would have won 6 of the last 7 without the Silverstone failure but I don't think he will walk it this weekend

[Chuckjr]

Just stating what was communicated in Korea.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... ranscript/

"Lewis, quick question: just looking back at the Singapore race. When the team analysed the performance of both you and Nico and Sebastian, you were so close to him in qualifying in terms of team pace, then he had that two seconds a lap advantage when he was sprinting, but do you think that was a bit of a false picture because he was very much pushing to open up that gap and maybe you guys were obviously in a different position in that race. Do you think that the gap we saw open up was a slightly false picture?
LH: I don’t, personally, think so. No. I think that’s the true pace of their car. Perhaps they have a lot more in the bag than we get to see, so it’s just cruising, generally. I think in the race on the restart everyone’s pushing flat out so there should be no reason why they should be able to pull away that much quicker. If you look at their on-boards, he’s on the power, full throttle at least twenty meters before everyone else which is a huge advantage.

What sort of reaction does that make you have and the team have; what can you do about that?
LH: There’s nothing we can really do, we’re always asking for rear downforce, always want to be able to get on the power sooner. But the last time I was able to put the pedal down that quick was what, 2007, 2008? 2007 when we had traction control, so it’s a lot different."

[raymondu999]

Lewis also said in 2010 ("last year" would be the 2009 car):

The downforce they had on their car last year was at some points just about double what we had.

What he thinks to be the case, may not be the truth.

I'm not doubting Lewis' honesty, and I'm not saying he plays mind games - but "perception" does not equal "reality." As people in my field of work like to say, "The map is not the territory" - the map is a version of the territory.

[Spacepace]

Yeah I have seen Hamilton do this before in 2011. He was saying something after every qualifying all the time about how Red Bull always have that little bit more in Q3. I think he's just trying to shine a light on suspicions of Red Bulls supposedly having traction control.

[rssh]

Sorry but I can't see Hamilton getting pole. Red Bull have been very effective in recent races, and Suzuka is one of their favorite tracks. Vettel pole/win.

Yes they have, but the circuits where fast corner aero is needed they were fighting the mercs. And the Mercs are always good at qualifying. Surely, Suzuka was a RB7 track, but is it still a RB9 track?

I wouldn't say that Suzuka was a RB7 track, Vettel hardly managed to snatch the pole position by a few thousand of second from Button and the faster driver Hamilton was mugged at the last corner and couldn't start the lap. RB7 has severe Thermal degradation and Vettel pitted earlier than others and lost out to Button who had managed the tyres well. Macca has a really great front end in 2011 (see 1st sector in Nurbergring) and it was by far the best car in 2011 at suzuka.

I would kind of bet on Merc for pole because they have had better front end on their car, it could be another Hungey/Monaco kind of race.

[Juzh]

I would kind of bet on Merc for pole because they have had better front end on their car, it could be another Hungey/Monaco kind of race.

Same was said for singapore RB was also much faster in final sector in korea which requires a good front end for tight corners.

[rssh]

I would kind of bet on Merc for pole because they have had better front end on their car, it could be another Hungey/Monaco kind of race.

Same was said for singapore RB was also much faster in final sector in korea which requires a good front end for tight corners.

But Singapore S3 is a start stop and the RB superior traction due to good rear end grip helped it on power much earlier than other teams. Also the mechanical grip is more prominent in the S3 of Singapore due to lower speeds were as the Merc is good in both mechanical grip and traction on front end as seen in Monaco and Hungry resp. But RB may be outdeveloped in these areas in recent races . Also Korea S2 speeds advantage by Merc is a bit of false impression because RB was carring lesser drag on both cars

[kalinka]

"Same was said for singapore RB was also much faster in final sector in korea which requires a good front end for tight corners."

Yes, definitely RBR had found some speed since Singapore, so you could not count on previous results as a reference. I still hope though for Merc to be competitive against RBR.

[kooleracer]

I'm really looking forward to 2014 when no one can benefit anymore form exhaust gases, that is Red Bull main advantage over the other teams. Also with the new engine I hope renault advantage in fuel consumption will be less. No one will will win races other then Vettel is everything goes according to plan. The RB9 has an 1 sec advantage in race-pace above the rest. Vettel is never on the limit when is leading from the front he is just cruising after he opened up a 5 sec gap after 2 or 3 laps. This dominance is even greater then MSC ever had in his ferrari days. The FIA should have used the 2014 exhaust for this season that would have made this season much closer. Suzuka is hard on the tyres so Red Bull and Lotus will fight for the victory. Mercedes will qualify high but i think the race will show that their rear degradation is still to high to cope with the high fuel levels.

1.Vettel
2.Grosjean
3.Webber
4.Raikonnen
5.Hamilton
6.Alonso
7.Rosberg
8.Button
9.Massa
10. Vergne

[raymondu999]

Given Suzuka's quite hard to overtake at, and how good Button is through Sector 2 here, I think we'll get to see Button get to higher points (P4-P5ish) with a Button TyreSave Special™ (or more technically known as "n-1 stop")

[beelsebob]

Given Suzuka's quite hard to overtake at, and how good Button is through Sector 2 here, I think we'll get to see Button get to higher points (P4-P5ish) with a Button TyreSave Special™ (or more technically known as "n-1 stop")

I'm not convinced by "Sazuka's quite hard to overtake at". We generally see a good number of passes into the hairpin, and the chicaine.

[raymondu999]

Yes but it's still not as easy as some other circuits. I'd disagree that the chicane gets a lot of overtaking. Hairpin, possibly, but it'd have to be a do-or-die dive-bomb