2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[Ciro Pabón]

Is the driver's weight included in those 500 kilos or what?

The regulations specify that the weight of the car, including the driver, but not fuel, is 642 kilos. Cars are weighed with dry tyres. Ballast may be added (actually, the word "may" is superfluous these days: everybody adds ballast) to complete the weight specified by regulations.

The weight you may have seen is for the car without ballast, driver or fluids (hydraulics and oil, for example).

I highly recommend to read before posting, specially the regulations. Believe me, it's not my intention to offend, I swear.The four most valuable words in engineering are: "I do not know". Once you say that, you are impelled to read about that issue before writing about it. That's a nice discipline, specially for working in anything.

Sorry for the interruption, please, go on.

[WhiteBlue]

Oh, the wise man himself has graced the board with some pearls. Lovely to read Ciro, like always. F1 engines are as usual a compromise to appease the constructors or we would see more freedom as we see it in Lmp1 which is written with the ACO and with a lot more rule making power of the manufacturers. In F1 engine development is massively cost restricted and will be frozen very quickly which is not the case in LMP1. In comparison F1 chassis and aero is not cost restricted and not frozen. It shows that the constructors castrate the technology and the engineering. People who think that the teams are doing a good job with their rule making powers are kidding themselves. All you will get with the current F1 policies is more Red Bull domination. Nice for Newey and Vettel, but boring for the fans. I'll be watching a lot more Porsche, Audi and Toyota racing next year.

[GitanesBlondes]

Oh, the wise man himself has graced the board with some pearls. Lovely to read Ciro, like always. F1 engines are as usual a compromise to appease the constructors or we would see more freedom as we see it in Lmp1 which is written with the ACO and with a lot more rule making power of the manufacturers. In F1 engine development is massively cost restricted and will be frozen very quickly which is not the case in LMP1. In comparison F1 chassis and aero is not cost restricted and not frozen. It shows that the constructors castrate the technology and the engineering. People who think that the teams are doing a good job with their rule making powers are kidding themselves. All you will get with the current F1 policies is more Red Bull domination. Nice for Newey and Vettel, but boring for the fans. I'll be watching a lot more Porsche, Audi and Toyota racing next year.

Actually these silly engines are nothing more than the leftover work of Mosley and the FIA. We should take the time to properly assign blame instead of passing the buck off on the constructors as you're so wont to do. All of this is down to the FIA anyway as they haven't got the slightest clue about anything. Sort of like that single fuel supplier thing they backed off of pretty quickly, when they no doubt were shouted down by the whole of the teams for the stupidity it was.

The FIA has always historically been about doing the most illogical things possible. The words logical and FIA should never be next to one another in a sentence.

But I digress.

[xpensive]

...
Actually these silly engines are nothing more than the leftover work of Mosley and the FIA. We should take the time to properly assign blame instead of passing the buck off on the constructors as you're so wont to do. All of this is down to the FIA anyway as they haven't got the slightest clue about anything. Sort of like that single fuel supplier thing they backed off of pretty quickly, when they no doubt were shouted down by the whole of the teams for the stupidity it was.

The FIA has always historically been about doing the most illogical things possible. The words logical and FIA should never be next to one another in a sentence.

But I digress.

I concur, it was MrM and the FIA that commenced this mindless standardization and homologazion of this and that, it's sad to see MrT continuing on the same path of engineering ignorance, but this is what you get when you give technical dilletants too much slack.

Remember the grooved tyres anyone, that abomination came straight from MrM's kitchentable theories.

[Blackout]

I think I know the regulation about the wight, Ciro Pabón; 642 kg min for 2013 and 690 for 2014 but I think few people know how much today's f1 cars weight without ballast and the driver. That's why I'm asking...
For 2014 we would get 580 (car+V6 turbo power unit) + 75 (driver) = more or less 660 kg ---> 30 kg of ballast.
Eric Boullier for example said lately (after Korean GP) that the E22 will weight less than the minimum weight and implied that hiring Hulkenberg (74 kg) would not be a problem...

And let's not forget that 2014 gearboxes might be heavier than 2013 ones (they must support twice the torque, do more GPs, house an additional gear and might be lengthened by some teams for aerodynamic reasons) so they will be heavier but will they compromise ballast distribution much ? when you look at that enormous piece of tungsten placed on the RB9's gearbox, the answer is not much IMO

[Blackout]

Edit.

[ringo]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/10/j ... into-2014/
check it out

[Ciro Pabón]

Apologies, Blackout, I'm not talking about yours but some posts I saw, which for my tranquility will remain unnamed. Oh, and nice to meet you, man.

I'm not sure if FIA is illogical, or at least not more than us, or, as a minimum, definitely less illogical than I am, but rest assured everybody and his dog tries to find every weakness in their regulations, dear Gugs. I'm pretty sure that the 48 kilograms between years have taken in account the weight increase in engines.

I know as much as Jon Snow about ballast weight


I highly doubt those units aren't already built and thus, weighed. The amount of ballast should be the same, or perhaps a tad more, to keep times constant, or perhaps a tad less, if V6, probably, are more powerful than V8 or lend themselves to become more powerful by clever tuning.

Forgive me for stating the obvious, but the idea of keeping times around a number is for driver safety and also for entertaining us, as you, I'm sure, already know.

At least, if you are not entertained and do not enjoy the races, unlike a few simpleton souls like me do (that actually have found them entertaining for years without end, including the last one), then you can complain about FIA, which, apparently, is entertaining in itself. However, what do I know?

They all sound like music to me
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnnNu7S3xI4[/youtube]

Some days I think FIA was created as the villain because we need one instinctively. If FIA did not exist, then we had to complain about drivers or chief mechanics.

I believe it's like the movies: you need to depersonalize your enemy. Sometimes you achieve that by making him directly inhuman, like a shark, a tornado, a big company without heart, or something like that.

Another possibility is to make him so evil that he leaves humankind for good, so you are not subjected to rational rules about what you do with or say about him.

This way the "good guys" can kill dozens of enemies without remorse (or even being sued).

Die, FIA, die!

[GitanesBlondes]

Some days I think FIA was created as the villain because we need one instinctively. If FIA did not exist, then we had to complain about drivers or chief mechanics.

I believe it's like the movies: you need to depersonalize your enemy. Sometimes you achieve that by making him directly inhuman, like a shark, a tornado, a big company without heart, or something like that.

Another possibility is to make him so evil that he leaves humankind for good, so you are not subjected to rational rules about what you do with or say about him.

The fans still complain about the teams, drivers, and whomever else.

Many complaints regarding the FIA are quite valid if you ask me. Or maybe instead of FIA we should just refer to Mosley altogether? A sport that is turning into IRL Europe due to Mosley is good how...?

[timbo]

A sport that is turning into IRL Europe due to Mosley is good how...?

I don't see that F1 is any more IRLesque now or with 2014 rules than several years ago.
And I quite understand motives for rule changes usually, although of course I can be skeptic over the implementation.

[FrukostScones]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110478

efficiency more important than performance? I thought in 2014 efficiency is performance.

After wanting already 110Kg of Fuel it seems obvious that Ferrari wants badmouth the new engine formula as they have a consumption aka efficiency deficit aka performance deficit? We will find out next year...

[GitanesBlondes]

A sport that is turning into IRL Europe due to Mosley is good how...?

I don't see that F1 is any more IRLesque now or with 2014 rules than several years ago.
And I quite understand motives for rule changes usually, although of course I can be skeptic over the implementation.

Well I guess I refer to the quiet, but constant push towards homogenization on all fronts when I make the IRL Europe comment. Considering what a huge threat CART was 2 decades ago, I find it ironic F1 has started venturing down the same path Tony George did, when it's so clear how devastating that all was for open-wheel racing in America.

[GitanesBlondes]

Also, Ciro once made a compelling argument for how awful the FIA has been on another forum, so I guess I was slightly confused about his post that seems to be minimizing the FIA as being all that bad. Granted maybe he still believes that, I don't know.

http://forum.grandprix.com/viewtopic.ph ... 52#p527596

Although sadly no lengthy post was made about the handing over of the commercial rights to Ecclestone...but then again that speaks for itself.

[xpensive]

A most interesting link that GB, Ciro is indeed a member possessing the gift of eloquence, isn't he?

[GitanesBlondes]

A most interesting link that GB, Ciro is indeed a member possessing the gift of eloquence, isn't he?

He certainly has that gift of eloquence that makes for great reading!