Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

[munudeges]

We've been over this many times.

Brawn's end of 2009 accounts show just how flushed with cash they actually were. Brawn sold to line his pockets to the brim while people were supposedly being laid off. Survival my arse.

[dren]

Dave richards buys Honda gp, and strips it bare to relocate to banbury.
Along the way, he uses iP honda funded to use against honda in series honda compete in.

Save the fact his operation was ready to go in 2009, awaiting fia approval, how many people would have lost their jobs at Brackley?

As for virgin, where exactly are they now?
They sold out.

The examples given are clear indications of why brawn was the best option for honda.

DR was trying to get into F1 with Pro Drive through several avenues and failed. So there may have been some politics there? Although he was replaced at BAR by Nick Fry who was also from Pro Drive.

Perhaps in the buy-out clause it stated that the head management had to be retained, and none of the buyers wanted to do that? Surely DR would have wanted to take control if the Pro Drive buy was successful?

I don't think Brawn and co had some evil sinister plan to rape and pillage assets and cash from the team. I do know they all thought they had a race winning car on their hands and a shot at the championship. I'd say that was motivation. Honda top executives did keep in touch with Brawn and co through the championship wishing them well. That doesn't spell bad taste to me.

[FoxHound]

DR was trying to get into F1 with Pro Drive through several avenues and failed. So there may have been some politics there? Although he was replaced at BAR by Nick Fry who was also from Pro Drive.

Perhaps in the buy-out clause it stated that the head management had to be retained, and none of the buyers wanted to do that? Surely DR would have wanted to take control if the Pro Drive buy was successful?

Yes in 2009 Richards geared for a shot at F1. Prodrive had an agreement in place to use Mercedes engines should the bid be successful.
Instead the FIA chose USF1 and HRT....

Prodrive had the facilities and manpower to do this.
They employ 600 people and turnover 100 million a year. They did not require the purchase of another team and it's associated costs.

[GitanesBlondes]

Why wouldn't Richards purchasing Honda make sense? It would have given him all the R&D necessary right from the get-go, and I suspect the team would never have been sold to Mercedes.

[PNSD]

Crucially Prodrive already had prior experience with BAR...
The fact that they weren't granted a spot is one of the worst decisions in recent years IMO.

[FoxHound]

Why wouldn't Richards purchasing Honda make sense? It would have given him all the R&D necessary right from the get-go, and I suspect the team would never have been sold to Mercedes.

You tell that to the 450 people being let go

[GitanesBlondes]

Why wouldn't Richards purchasing Honda make sense? It would have given him all the R&D necessary right from the get-go, and I suspect the team would never have been sold to Mercedes.

You tell that to the 450 people being let go

Do you lament all those who lost jobs over the last 50 years in F1 due to teams being shuttered?

It's business Fox, it's not personal. Stop trying to make it a personal agenda.

[dren]

I think he's saying that's likely a reason why DR didn't get control of the Honda team. They probably wanted to retain as much of the team as possible. DR was trying to get in earlier with customer cars until they changed/clarified the rules on customer cars if I recall?

Perhaps there were some political issues keeping DR out? Like stated above, Pro Drive was in much better shape than HRT and the USF1 joke.

[munudeges]

You tell that to the 450 people being let go

As the director's cash in in full knowledge of the stash of cash hidden away and around the corner. I suppose they had to keep up appearances though........... Brawn's so-called financial trouble was a complete mirage.

[marcush.]

without trying to be too nitpicky ..but wasn´t Brawns first measure after race 1 to lay off half the workforce -the R&D department as it was clear the car was quick enough as is?
He got the moneys from Honda to keep the ship afloat for a potential buyer but as we all know the team was reduced to a secoond string outfit -not a top team in terms of workforce .They delayed a necessary upgrade to their windtunnel methods evidence of all cars -bar BGP001- had serious aero issues from 2006 -till 2012.God knows what or who performed the miracle of that 2009 car -but one tends to it being a nice coincidence of having found the golden bullet of the outwash frontwing combined with carte blanche with the ddd .....enough of an addvantage to bag those titles.
fair enough Button always raved about the car still having masses of unlocked potential as it was a bastard with adapted gearbox etc....worth seconds of laptime to be released later on ...which did never materialise -the mods came the performance did not get any better....only now in 2013 -4 years on (!!!) the team finally has built the capacity to win races without relying on FIA wavers..

[GitanesBlondes]

without trying to be too nitpicky ..but wasn´t Brawns first measure after race 1 to lay off half the workforce -the R&D department as it was clear the car was quick enough as is?
He got the moneys from Honda to keep the ship afloat for a potential buyer but as we all know the team was reduced to a secoond string outfit -not a top team in terms of workforce .They delayed a necessary upgrade to their windtunnel methods evidence of all cars -bar BGP001- had serious aero issues from 2006 -till 2012.God knows what or who performed the miracle of that 2009 car -but one tends to it being a nice coincidence of having found the golden bullet of the outwash frontwing combined with carte blanche with the ddd .....enough of an addvantage to bag those titles.
fair enough Button always raved about the car still having masses of unlocked potential as it was a bastard with adapted gearbox etc....worth seconds of laptime to be released later on ...which did never materialise -the mods came the performance did not get any better....only now in 2013 -4 years on (!!!) the team finally has built the capacity to win races without relying on FIA wavers..

Fascinating stuff marcush.

I still scratch my head over the BGP001. I remember thinking at the time once the whole double diffuser debacle got sorted out, would it have happened had it been an official Honda entry. But regardless, had that car been properly developed further, I wonder how many more seconds they would have found in that thing. I don't think it should have taken 4 years of evolution to suddenly develop a multi-race winner though. Any ideas on why, with a solid car to build off of, it took 4 years for any results to be seen the way they finally did this season?

[xpensive]

Because it wasn't a superior car as such, once the others had the front wing and diffuser they fell back, just like Lotus in 1979.

[Richard]

This is like walking into the lounge of an old people's home where they discuss what happened may years ago as if it was current.

Any chance of staying on topic?

ps This year is 2013.

[marcush.]

Richard ,we may well be a horde of old f..s ready to meet in the lobby of a elder men residence ....fair enough I realise I start getting grey lately -which is preferable to bald ...a small but notable differnece.
Still i think it is worth mentioning and certainly not off topic to relate Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 ´s current competitiveness to the last 6or 7 seasons .
sure everyone is entitled to his own opinions but it seems rather odd that Brawn came up with a world beater only after Honda dropped out and Brawn and Fry apeared to save the team with the help of debatable hardware in use.
fair enough the front wing design was a big contributor as well to the success of BGP001 but it is no secret this was a brainchild of Super Aguris R&D team -so my questioning of the strength of Honda -Brawn-Mercedes Grand Prix has some justification .
Nevertheless one has to aknowledge the step forward they made for the 2013 season -at the expense of gearing up in a way totally contradicting the original claims when purchasing Brawn GP (eg sticking to the RRA building a small but effective outfit).

[Helios]

What do you guys make out of this:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... ostpopular

Clever move or narrowminded? I mean the gap between the two Mercedes drivers was negligible given the circumstances.