Ferrari F138

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Gerhard Berger
Gerhard Berger
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Joined: 20 Sep 2010, 11:17

Re: Ferrari F138

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diffuser wrote:
Tim.Wright wrote:
l4mbch0ps wrote:As far as the great starts go, I suspect this is due to the dual rate rear roll bar.

http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/2011/06/10/fe ... -roll-bar/

Article from 2011.
Anti rollbar has no influence on the starts. The start quality will be due to something in either the driver, engine torque management or clutch release management.

agreed it does have some to do with getting power to the ground in corners or atleast reducing roll....


Looking at this picture http://i.imgur.com/4Po0Qik.jpg from monza 2013... It looks like a pullrod rear suspension.

I don't think they run the pushrod rear anymore.
Yes the article is from June 2011 (i.e. it is about the F150 Italia, and that is the version of the car before the suspension geometry was revised at Silverstone that year.

stefan_
stefan_
696
Joined: 04 Feb 2012, 12:43
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Ferrari F138

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Japan 2013 - Thursday (10.10.2013)

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via AMuS

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"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

f1316
f1316
82
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: Ferrari F138

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Lots of flo vis on the bear - must be a 2014 part

CBeck113
CBeck113
51
Joined: 17 Feb 2013, 19:43

Re: Ferrari F138

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They want to know when he farts...
“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Monty Python and the Holy Grail

bhall
bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Ferrari F138

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That it appears to be functioning leads me to believe it is, in fact, not a Ferrari design.

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Holm86
247
Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 03:37
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: Ferrari F138

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When i first saw the picture i thought it was greenpeace again :) They have broken in at different Shell refineries dressed as polarbears :)

Perhaps it's just Ferrari's way of mocking them?? By painting a polarbear in illuminescent paint :D

radosav
radosav
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Joined: 05 Feb 2012, 20:46

Re: Ferrari F138

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Maybe it is Kimi ?

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diffuser
236
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: Ferrari F138

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turbof1 wrote:
diffuser wrote:I think Ferrari has been a mess in the last 2 years, all stemming from aero issues. I think the aero team has been a major disappointment. I agree with Alonzo it is a miracle that they are where they are in points. The best thing to have happened this year was the switch to the Lotus aero guy in late September.


Well that and the addition of James Allison.
They haven't been such a mess. Just take a look at those 2 years and Imagine Red Bull Racing never existed; you'll inmediately get a different picture. Ferrari actually did a very good job, but it's just that red bull whipes the floor with everybody else in F1.


Ok maybe "a mess" Is too strong. On race day things are a bit different (speed balances out between teams when carrying 150kg of Fuel). If you're of the mind that Qualifying is a good representation of the cars actual pace... Then the Ferrari has been weak on Qualifying and the true pace of the car is much slower than the points it racks up on race day. The points you bring home on Race day is influenced by how well the other drivers are doing. Lets face it, last year Schumi just about had 1 DNF in 2 races either cause he ran into someone or his car broke down. I can think of a couple of races last year that Hamilton took himself out of the race cause he just pushed too hard and button was lost for a good part of last year. Add to that Alonzo was just about perfect last year and still overachieving this year.....It can lead to an incorrect vision of the car.

Lets face it, the car has been 3 or 4th fastest in the last 3 years.Worse, on average, they've been about .750 seconds off the pace.

f1316
f1316
82
Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: Ferrari F138

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diffuser wrote:
turbof1 wrote:
diffuser wrote:I think Ferrari has been a mess in the last 2 years, all stemming from aero issues. I think the aero team has been a major disappointment. I agree with Alonzo it is a miracle that they are where they are in points. The best thing to have happened this year was the switch to the Lotus aero guy in late September.


Well that and the addition of James Allison.
They haven't been such a mess. Just take a look at those 2 years and Imagine Red Bull Racing never existed; you'll inmediately get a different picture. Ferrari actually did a very good job, but it's just that red bull whipes the floor with everybody else in F1.


Ok maybe "a mess" Is too strong. On race day things are a bit different (speed balances out between teams when carrying 150kg of Fuel). If you're of the mind that Qualifying is a good representation of the cars actual pace... Then the Ferrari has been weak on Qualifying and the true pace of the car is much slower than the points it racks up on race day. The points you bring home on Race day is influenced by how well the other drivers are doing. Lets face it, last year Schumi just about had 1 DNF in 2 races either cause he ran into someone or his car broke down. I can think of a couple of races last year that Hamilton took himself out of the race cause he just pushed too hard and button was lost for a good part of last year. Add to that Alonzo was just about perfect last year and still overachieving this year.....It can lead to an incorrect vision of the car.

Lets face it, the car has been 3 or 4th fastest in the last 3 years.Worse, on average, they've been about .750 seconds off the pace.
And what's more concerning is that, whilst they were slow in getting off the ground with the new regulations in 2009, they were actually very competitive in 2010 and close in pure pace terms to the RBs. Albeit they were reasonably competitive at the start of this year, as a general rule they 've slipped further back ever since.

Then again, a lot of their problems have come from wind tunnel correlation and/or (in)ability to get the same results from exhaust technology as other teams. With that in mind a) the tunnel will hopefully be much improved from this month on b) I personally don't see how teams can get round the new exhaust placement to get much benefit (which I'm aware is a conversation for somewhere else), so Ferrari may have the opportunity to play to their strengths a little more from 2014.

For now, the F138 is a blighted by its slow corner speed; I think they will actually do better in Japan than in recent races, due to the nature of the track, as they were fast in quick corners for the past two years.

tpe
tpe
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Joined: 03 Feb 2006, 00:24
Location: Greece

Re: Ferrari F138

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The last time when a Ferrari car had good traction was 2004. After that year they never had a car with good traction. Even at 2007. So after the big changes of 2005, Ferrari had traction problems.

stefan_
stefan_
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Joined: 04 Feb 2012, 12:43
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Ferrari F138

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Japan 2013 - Friday (11.10.2013)

Image
Image
Image
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

emmepi27
emmepi27
141
Joined: 14 Jul 2013, 12:33

Re: Ferrari F138

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Longer exhaust for Massa, shorter for Alonso (see image posted by Stefan)

csponton
csponton
7
Joined: 08 Sep 2009, 17:02

Re: Ferrari F138

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Longer exhaust for Massa annd rake greater than Alonso (shorter exhaust)
Image

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turbof1
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Joined: 19 Jul 2012, 21:36
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: Ferrari F138

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I think they run equal rake.

So they introduced the longer exhaust in Spain. Now we are nearing the end of the season and they still don't have a clue which one is better.
Ferrari should stop wasting times on solution which are redundant for next year. They should be focussing on testing 2014 parts.
#AeroFrodo

f1316
f1316
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Joined: 22 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: Ferrari F138

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turbof1 wrote:I think they run equal rake.

So they introduced the longer exhaust in Spain. Now we are nearing the end of the season and they still don't have a clue which one is better.
Ferrari should stop wasting times on solution which are redundant for next year. They should be focussing on testing 2014 parts.
I think 2nd in the constructors' is still quite important to them and, without a more stable rear, they're not really looking fast enough to keep it. So I think they still think there's time to be found by having a better exhaust solution.

However, you are right, why it's taken them this long to incorporate something which their data obviously showed was faster is a bit ridiculous.