Frank Williams on the customer chassis issue

[Rob W]

I'm interested in this subject. Frank, as usual, sums it up into a seemingly simple argument against Super Aguri and Toro Rosso using bought or loaned chassis.

Frank Williams: "We are out there competing for two world championships - one for the best driver in the world, and one for the constructor who builds the best car in the world. As far as I'm concerned, it is absolutely in the regulations in black and white that every team must make its own chassis."

Are these two teams running the risk of being caught out badly or have they already been through the discussions with the FIA and have been given a go-ahead?

Rob W

[bhall]

I think this is why STR and Super Aguri are waiting until the very last moment to launch their cars. Inevitably, Williams and Spyker, possibly others, will complain, and STR and Aguri will then claim that it's too late for them to race with anything else. They're probably betting on the provision in the Concorde Agreement that requires teams to race at every event to save them.

[Rob W]

Inevitably, Williams and Spyker, possibly others, will complain, and STR and Aguri will then claim that it's too late for them to race with anything else.

...In which case Williams etc can just say "use last year's cars then." Other teams have done it in the past when technical changes have been far more significant that between 06 and 07.

I'm sure Frank Williams has a good point and anticipate Ron Dennis etc to comment on this sometime soon. Surely they would be against it knowing how much effort and time they put into their own chassis.

Rob W

[Venom]

Until Mosley and his group of maFIA (defined by manchild) properly outline the regulations and all ambigious aspects, how is anyone going to be right or wrong?

They will probably get away with running Red Bull chassis, just because of the fact that nobody can prove Mosley wrong and they don't have the "data".

I reckon we should "ask the audience". Why not put a Poll on f1t askin whether the chassis from old Red Bull should be allowed to other teams.

[manchild]

Ingenious comment from Sir Frank. Those who don't see things as he does better start on-line petition for introduction of constructors championship in Champ car (I have a feeling Panoz will win WCC).

[Principessa]

There have been a lot of other teams that have kind of said that they'll take further actions if needed. I don't believe that there is, of course besides Toro Rosso - Red Bull and Super Aguri - Honda, any other team approves customer cars.

Pat Symonds, Theissen, Colles and now Williams already declared they're opposed to it!

[Ranald]

I absolutely disagree with what Super Aguri and Toro Rosso seem to be planning for this season. But having said that the explainations given seem to be satisfactory in terms of complying to the rules.
Obviously the plans of both teams are slightly different with Torro Rosso running a version of the RB3 chassis of this year whereas Super Aguri are set to run a developed RA106 from last season.
Both teams seem to have exploited a loophole in the regulations. In the case of RBR/STR the designs of the RB3 is registerd to a 3rd party group, I believe named Red Bull F1 Technology or something like that), and under the regulations a 3rd party company can work with multiple teams. Super Aguri are in a similar position where there car is being 'designed' by another 3rd party company in Japan, the name of which escapes me. As long as both teams can prove that they or a 3rd party built the chassis then they are actually within the rules.
Again I have to say that it is completely against the spirit of the regulations governing this season although next season this sort of thing will be completely legal.

Good article here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56437

[ginsu]

Again I have to say that it is completely against the spirit of the regulations governing this season although next season this sort of thing will be completely legal.

Good article here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56437

I think that's precisely the problem. The FIA wants to encourage smaller and more independent teams but how could they ever compete to build a chassis? The problem is that you can't have 22 new chassis every year. Only the biggest teams can afford to build their cars from scratch. Williams may be complaining but when did they become such a small constructor that they can't afford to build their own chassis? Obviously the only teams really complaining are the ones in competition with STR and Super Aguri, so if you helped those specific teams get a chassis then the whole problem would be solved.

I say, give Spyker a Honda or a RB2 chassis. Williams should be developing their own anyway. It was only ten years ago that they won the WDC, they shouldn't have mismanaged their way to mediocrity. Frank should really think about the good of the sport. More teams makes F1 better, don't sue the teams because that'll just scare everybody off. Prodrive is getting in on this too, and I don't want them to leave because Frank can't handle his own team anymore. Give them a break Frank.

And Super Aguri ran an old Arrows chassis last year, Frank didn't seem to care then.

[manchild]

I think situation is opposite - before Max became president of FIA and started reshaping F1 "because F1 needs Ferrari" there were many small and independent teams surviving for decades. Than Max came and some of the true F1 legends as well as not that famous small teams vanished.

I say he did exactly opposite of what he claims - he raised cost and raising costs killed small teams and it still kills them. What's done is done but I hate seeing same guy who f***d up now explaining how others are to blame and how we should let him rum F1 no matter what.

He raised costs with imposing V10 only
He raised costs with imposing V8 only
He raised costs with imposing one race on tyre rule
He raised costs with imposing switch back to tyre change rule

He became president of FIA in 1993, banning most of technology for 1994 in a short notice leading F1 to a one of the darkest seasons ever. He who cares so much about the safety did nothing after Ratzenberger's death on Saturday qualifying and let the race be held like Saturday was one normal day. No one was held responsible... for nothing.

But we've been trough this before and I've said it all and you've all read it so I'll stop.

I'm just glad I had the chance to watch F1 races when it was really unique and legendary sport not this feminine "I'm F1 driver but I can't say what I think because my PR assistant told me to shut up so I'll become whore for sponsors and smile like an idiot" travesty. What's been done will never be repaired.

Welcome to engine freeze era (I'd call it brain freeze).

So I say, ok, perhaps customer chassis are necessary evil in order to save F1, allow them if it is necessary, but PLEASE let someone else save F1 instead of guy who brought it to this sorry state.

[johny]

The main problem with the rulebook is that Fia is twisting it in a way that even the most simple and obvious rule can be interpreted in many ways (mainly 2, comon sense and Fia way), see carbon rim lips. Also as everybody knows there're teams and teams. Toro rosso entered F1 with a thought in mind, they were going to use most things of his older brother, str1 was mainly a rb2 copy/paste, well they could argument it because jaguar designed it. Also Super aguri finally get into f1, why they couldn't use the Bar-Honda 007, it's because mr.bond crashed it? dunno maybe one day i'll understand it. Also toro rosso bennefit with the use of V10 engines, why? yes minardi had many money problems but it's a new team and they conserve the old team privileges.

IMO since toro rosso appeared, they just tryed to avoid the rulebook, just for one reason, they didn't want to carry minardi style and they didn't want to work as other teams do

[ginsu]

There's a tremendous amount of wasted technology in F1, mainly because a certain driver may not know how to take advantage of it. So a team, like Honda, spend millions and millions and because Jenson doesn't want to warm his tires like Alonso, or because Rubens is awfully slow, for whatever reason the technology goes wasted.

I don't think it's right to waste this technology and customer cars are one way of spreading your luck, good or bad, out. Think of it, because Honda have excess technology in the form of old chassis, drivers like Sato and Anthony Davidson get to benefit. Who knows Ant may be the next Fernando, and we would never know if Super Aguri didn't get to use the old Honda chassis.

Nobody can deny that STR and Honda would probably bail out of F1 if they didn't get to use customer chassis. Certainly, Prodrive would.

[johny]

next year they'll all have their legal customer chassis, but not now. As Frank said it's illegal under current regulations

[DaveKillens]

The main problem with the rulebook is that Fia is twisting it in a way that even the most simple and obvious rule can be interpreted in many ways

I too believe this is one of the major problems. The spirit of the rules intended each team to be distinct and unique from each other. But of course, both Honda and Red Bull have every intention of stepping past the intentions and just using lawyers to re-define already vague FIA regulations.
In this scenario there are two failings. First, the rules that allow such an application. And secondly, and what every fan needs to remember is that Red Bull and Honda are not playing the game clean and fair. Yea, maybe it can be argued that this is business, and just about everything goes. True, but next time you pass by a Honda dealership, just remember that now Honda has filth on it's hands. They ain't clean, and they ain't so honorable anymore.

[BreezyRacer]

There's a tremendous amount of wasted technology in F1, mainly because a certain driver may not know how to take advantage of it. So a team, like Honda, spend millions and millions and because Jenson doesn't want to warm his tires like Alonso, or because Rubens is awfully slow,

Rubens slow??? Hardly. I'll agree that he rarely sets up his car for maximum 1 lap conditions but Honda made out good when they got Rubens. It's very possible that Button wouldn't have won his first race if Rubens hadn't lent some valuable driver feel to those Hondas.

[Rob W]

I feel stink for Frank Williams.

At the end of 2007, if he is last or second-last, he will not be happy if he was beaten by teams who essentially bought their chassis.

And because of William's historical success they'll had a hard time sourcing a chassis partner if they gave in and decided to follow that route. Partners seem to only want to support teams who they know wont beat them.

One thing that separates F1, for me at least, from every other series is the technical aspect of having to design and make your own car. Take that away and F1 is on a slippery slope to being as boring as IRL.

Hell they may as well do away with road-tracks because it's unfair to drivers who are better on ovals.

Rob W