2013 Japanese GP - Suzuka

[stefan_]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fCPiW37B1c[/youtube]

[SectorOne]

It´s so obvious they wrecked Webber´s day today. From all the pit radio it was clear they wanted Vettel as high up as possible, even if it ment taking down Webber.

Yeah. you have to feel for the man. Webber moved a bit to the right, forcing Lewis to do that as well, which ended up in Vettel's wing. Nobody can be really blamed. It's bad luck.

Raikkonen really was nowhere today, wasn't he? Since Raikkonen signed for Ferrari, Grosjean is driving suddenly much better compared to the Fin.

Yea the Grosjean/Kimi situation is quite interesting.
I think Grosjean has not always had the latest upgrades which has hampered him some but i think it´s clear once Kimi decided to leave them, Lotus has put all effort on Grosjean to make him a nr 1 driver to prepare him for next year.

It could also be that Kimi is a bit more relaxed now that his future is set in stone at Ferrari.

[stefan_]

Since not a lot of updates are coming for Lotus (I don't think they have any), and you can't say one is receiving more than the other, I would put these not-as-before performances more on Kimi than on what the team does or doesn't do for him. It's not the team that puts him in the wall or the gravel in practice sessions and so losing time for set-up/long runs and, as someone launched the "sabotage" idea - they don't have reasons to "sabotage" him as Lotus have a good shot for 3rd in the constructors'.

[SectorOne]

Since not a lot of updates are coming for Lotus (I don't think they have any),

But we know for a fact Grosjean has not enjoyed the latest updates in the first half of the season.
I´m not saying that is the cause for what is happening now but rather that the gap was slightly tweaked by Grosjean not always having the best equipment in the early part of the season.

[stefan_]

Since not a lot of updates are coming for Lotus (I don't think they have any),

But we know for a fact Grosjean has not enjoyed the latest updates in the first half of the season.
I´m not saying that is the cause for what is happening now but rather that the gap was slightly tweaked by Grosjean not always having the best equipment in the early part of the season.

New parts were never made in pairs, because first of all it may have been be a loss of money if they made 2 parts that didn't work as expected. They were testing on Kimi's car simply because Romain was sorting himself up and Kimi is, theoretically, able to give a better feedback as he is a more experienced driver, and he was in the fight for the title. If a part worked well (ex.: slim rear bodywork) it was brought to Romain also.

[SectorOne]

New parts were never made in pairs, because first of all it may have been be a loss of money if they made 2 parts that didn't work as expected. They were testing on Kimi's car simply because Romain was sorting himself up and Kimi is, theoretically, able to give a better feedback as he is a more experienced driver, and he was in the fight for the title. If a part worked well (ex.: slim rear bodywork) it was brought to Romain also.

Most teams bring parts to both drivers, it´s nothing alien to the teams.
The problem is that when the part works, Kimi rakes in the benefit of having that in one more race then Grosjean.
If it doesn´t work, he just reverts back to the old configuration, no loss whatsoever.

It´s amazing how people brush this over as nothing.

[turbof1]

Since not a lot of updates are coming for Lotus (I don't think they have any),

But we know for a fact Grosjean has not enjoyed the latest updates in the first half of the season.
I´m not saying that is the cause for what is happening now but rather that the gap was slightly tweaked by Grosjean not always having the best equipment in the early part of the season.

New parts were never made in pairs, because first of all it may have been be a loss of money if they made 2 parts that didn't work as expected. They were testing on Kimi's car simply because Romain was sorting himself up and Kimi is, theoretically, able to give a better feedback as he is a more experienced driver, and he was in the fight for the title. If a part worked well (ex.: slim rear bodywork) it was brought to Romain also.

I think that is the most important bit. Lotus didn't really introduce alot of new updates the last races. The biggest one was the longer chassis, which I believe both got simultaneously.

Of course, one improvement often automatically leads to the next. Romain qualifies at the second row, allowing him to make the agressive starts that normally would end in tears. Kimi has of late been sluggish concerning qualy. But even worse is that he didn't finish higher then 5th, given that 3 cars, which originally were in front of him, hit problems.

[krisfx]

Since Raikkonen signed for Ferrari, Grosjean is driving suddenly much better compared to the Fin.

But why is that? Maybe sabotage Kimi after what happened in Korea?

I just think he's given up with the Lotus since they couldn't pay him/stopped bringing updates/he knew he was out of the title fight and was jumping ship.

[komninosm]

Hamilton had gone through the gap though. Vettel was in effect behind him. Hamilton was alongside Webber. It was Webber's swerve that made Hamilton move across and lightly clip Vettel's front wing. In that respect, Webber's swerve worked because it caused one of his competitors to fall back. I bet he'd have been happier if Hamilton had wiped Vettel's nose off completely.

Pretty much. I don't understand the guy who blamed Hamilton, too much bias there.
Also Grosjean moved to the left and made Vettel have even less room and he was bound to hit one of the cars ahead. It was just luck that he hit Hamilton and not Grosjean. Or both.
But upon seeing it again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLAEb06V9vI
I have to say Webber's swerve was almost penalty worthy. Almost.


Oh poor swerving Webber, Red Bull is using cavalry pursuit tactics and you're the harrier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... fCPiW37B1c
In the old days, when your cavalry unit was trying to catch a fleeing smaller cavalry unit, the usual tactic was not to match speed or go slower or faster because the fleeing unit could match your speed and stamina (long range endurance). What you would do is split your forces and sent one half going fast and the other going on optimal (slower) speed. The enemy had no good choice. They either went on optimal speed too and got caught by your fast harriers, or they matched their fast speed keeping their distance till both were exhausted and then your optimal speed half unit caught them up some time later. Win-win.

Next time a lesson about sailing ships pursuit...

[AnthonyG]

I don't know what to think of Webber's strategy, but having as an element in your strategy "overtake the 2 fastest cars" doesn't seem like a good decision.

[ringo]

kimi's weakness has always been motivation. He loses it quite easily. Romain has been getting the better of him in recent races, in terms of qualifying and also race pace. I fear Ferrari may be hoping they can keep him interested so that he does better. But as i said in the Korean thread, Grosjean has his ticket, and i don't think Kimi can counter the kid's speed.

[munudeges]

Since Raikkonen signed for Ferrari, Grosjean is driving suddenly much better compared to the Fin.

But why is that? Maybe sabotage Kimi after what happened in Korea?

Raikkonen will keep doing what he can there but his job is done. I know some individuals who know very little about racing drivers like to big up Grosjean, mostly for their own bizarre reasons, but the points situation over the past two seasons tells you everything you need to know.

Motivation has absolutely nothing to do with anything and it's something people who know very little repeat time and again. Raikkonen has destroyed Grosjean for two seasons despite Grosjean looking fast - and people still cling on to that. There are very clear reasons for that and those won't change and will only get magnified once Grosjean is under real pressure to get double the points he has now. He's just not a 'racing driver'. It's no use calling him a 'kid' either, because he isn't a kid - another silly mistake many who don't know what they're talking about make.

[foxmulder_ms]

How can you guys say Raikkonen was not good in this race? In the race he was great. He took 5th position from starting 10th passing quite competitive cars. One can say he is under performing in qually for last 3 races but in the race he is phenomenal. Gaining more places than anyone else with some great moves.

[LionKing]

How can you guys say Raikkonen was not good in this race? In the race he was great. He took 5th position from starting 10th passing quite competitive cars. One can say he is under performing in qually for last 3 races but in the race he is phenomenal. Gaining more places than anyone else with some great moves.

Kimi usually races very well. However if it weren't for small mistake from Lewis at the start and unsafe release for Rosberg we would likely have another 2 more cars in front of him.

[anzx]

How can you guys say Raikkonen was not good in this race? In the race he was great. He took 5th position from starting 10th passing quite competitive cars. One can say he is under performing in qually for last 3 races but in the race he is phenomenal. Gaining more places than anyone else with some great moves.

Well we can't say Kimi is a bad driver, but, the fact is, he gained the postions because his car is better than those cars in midfield (saubers, Mclarens), higher places were untargatable today). Anyway, Grosjean is driving faster than him since Hungaroring/Nurburgring, but the luck and mistakes didn't help Romain, I think Romain would won Hungaroring if there would be no drive thru penalty... anyway, Grosjean is 0.5 sec quicker than Kimi in the same car and Romain's race starts are better than Kimi's, Kimi always drops a place or two on start. Grosjean is realy on a charge now, I think he is the only one who can stop the Vettel's winning streak, and the guys at Redbull should be aware of him.