Why are end plates for rear wings in F1 so big vs Indy's

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Heisenberg
Heisenberg
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013, 07:32

Why are end plates for rear wings in F1 so big vs Indy's

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Hey everyone,

I've read that generally the "bigger the end plate, the better" as a bigger end plate will increase your Aspect Ratio. This in turn causes an increase in downforce and reduction in drag. But if it so beneficial, what is/are the main reason(s) for having such big endplates compared to Indy? In Fsae, I see lots of teams have relatives small endplates when it appears that a bigger one is generally more beneficial,

Cheers,
Luke

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Tim.Wright
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Joined: 13 Feb 2009, 06:29

Re: Why are end plates for rear wings in F1 so big vs Indy's

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I remember a rule change about 10 years ago or so which mandated a minimum area for the rear wing endplates. I beleive it was for advertising reasons and I don't know if its still in force now.
Not the engineer at Force India

Lycoming
Lycoming
106
Joined: 25 Aug 2011, 22:58

Re: Why are end plates for rear wings in F1 so big vs Indy's

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The endplate does not change aspect ratio. Aspect ratio is wingspan squared divided by planform area, neither of which are affected by endplate geometry. The endplate gives you a higher effective aspect ratio because in some ways, it has an aerodynamic effect similar to increasing the wingspan.

For F1 cars, at least the bit below the airfoil that extends far behind the trailing edge appears to be mainly for providing ad space.

But also, the taller you make and endplate, the less improvement you gain for each additional inch of height. F1 endplates are particularly tall because they're also the only structure supporting the wings. They have to extend down to the primary structure of the car, which tends to be placed quite low, whereas wing height is fixed.

And what FSAE cars have you been looking at? All the ones I see have massive endplates:

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But for FSAE, what's more important, weight or downforce/drag? Big endplates add weight, and often on these cars, they add weight far above the CG.

"Because they do it in F1" is rarely a justification for doing any of the things they do in other areas of engineering because of how tightly constrained they are by the rules. Indy is different. FSAE is really different. Good things to bear in mind.

timbo
timbo
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Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Why are end plates for rear wings in F1 so big vs Indy's

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Tim.Wright wrote:I remember a rule change about 10 years ago or so which mandated a minimum area for the rear wing endplates. I beleive it was for advertising reasons and I don't know if its still in force now.
Yes, the shape of endplates is pretty much the same since 2005, in 2003 endplates were smaller (engine cover too). So in 2004 the was set a mandated area of engine cover and 2005 -- for endplates. However, a part from the rule changes involved shifting rear wing to the front, and bigger enplates sort of hide it, so probably it is partly for aesthetics too.

gixxer_drew
gixxer_drew
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Joined: 31 Jul 2010, 18:17
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Re: Why are end plates for rear wings in F1 so big vs Indy's

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IndyCar is not a good place to draw a comparison when you have a spec chassis having something doesn't mean it was good. So it might just suck and nobody cares because its everyones suck.

alexbarwell
alexbarwell
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 14:19
Location: London

Re: Why are end plates for rear wings in F1 so big vs Indy's

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My understanding is an open end to a wing with no endplate has the high pressure spilling over the end to the low pressure and effectively cancelling the benefit in some part depending on the span of the wing - the endplate controlling this as it would have a further plane to get around.
I am an engineer, not a conceptualist :)