McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[gary123]

[bauc]

This car has finally come together...maybe not in raw speed but in driveability and tyre management is now pretty decent....to bad its over due for 6 months or more

[stefan_]

Abu Dhabi 2013 - Thursday (31.10.2013)

[marcush.]

As per JB Mclaren will test radical set up with the MP4-28 this weekend to try and find out what they might expect next year.

From Autosport.com:
"You definitely go places with the car that you would not normally do because you would be worried about giving points away if the weekend went wrong,"

"Here I have a set-up on my car that is completely different to any other race we have had the last couple of years - just to see where we are. It might help us next year.

"We are in a position where we can do that because we are not fighting for winning races, podiums or the championship so there are some positives to take out of it. And there aren't many in a difficult season."

He also added:
You learn where you cannot put things in terms of front wing angles and how the airflow is over the car," he said. "And that will really help us for next year's car.

"To have a bad year this year was probably the best year to have it, because you can learn a lot for the new package of 2014."

What do you guys think on above?

Looking at the Mclaren lately it seems to me that they solved their suspension difficulties/problems from earlier in the season, it is a car that rides very well now, not looking overly stiff like early season, and in general has a decent balance (a bit understeery in places).

It's probably lacking in downforce now since it has seen little development, but with new aero rules around the corner that doesn't mean much.

Ross Brawn said that they partially owe their good car this season to essentially running the final third of last season as testing for the new car, so what Mclaren is doing can only help imo.

Mclaren are the ones who bragg about their top notch simulator capabilities ,yet it took them much longer than Ferrari to master the pull rod front suapension switch - as THE in season development kings they were seen before.
Now we hear them talking of taking gambles they never would have even thought of if they were performing better ....so some of the solutions we see is driven by being desperate ......
and now you say Mercedes is a good example how to turn around a team ....sacrificing half a season for development purposes of next years car.....
To me this does not make any sense .
Reality is -in my perception-teams today are very very much dependend on working from known bases and chipping away on their minute issues .As soon as elementary problems arise they react like a horde of chicken and sverve into all conceiveable directions unstructured and chaotic .As soon as they find a workable patch finally and start to consolidate going back to their detail work and Simulation correlation thing.Is this structured Development?

[stefan_]

Abu Dhabi 2013 - Friday (01.11.2013)



No, it's not blown.

[henra]

Reality is -in my perception-teams today are very very much dependend on working from known bases and chipping away on their minute issues .As soon as elementary problems arise they react like a horde of chicken and sverve into all conceiveable directions unstructured and chaotic .

Even though this is a quite harsh statement, there have quite a few examples which absolutely seem to support this.
Therefore I strongly tend to agree. It is probably an indication of how complex these things have become.

[Manoah2u]

Reality is -in my perception-teams today are very very much dependend on working from known bases and chipping away on their minute issues .As soon as elementary problems arise they react like a horde of chicken and sverve into all conceiveable directions unstructured and chaotic .

Even though this is a quite harsh statement, there have quite a few examples which absolutely seem to support this.
Therefore I strongly tend to agree. It is probably an indication of how complex these things have become.

+2. agreed. allthough I think Mclaren have gotten themselves in too deep with this years car. Mclaren definately is one of
the best in adapting throughout the year, however, they've lost some figures and they just overwhelmed themselves with changes for this years car. The entire philosophy of this years car has changed - not just the suspension change, which
brings in enough on it's own - but the entire mclaren philosophy of running low-nose cars has changed aswell. Essentially,
they're in unknown territory, and that's their mistake. It's like mclaren was given a car of another team, and they had to
make it work. I can imagine they've had their hands full on that, and didn't know how to deal with it the best.

They lost Hamilton, and got Perez who is still on the learning curve and need to settle in. So many elements effecting the team it's rediculous. Really, you couldn't have expected otherwise with what MCL did this year. You'd be able to defend the suspension change in the eye of future benefits, but because of that, the entire design philosophy changed along the way - and that is something too much. Again, especially because it doesn't fit Mclaren's 'design philosophy'. Even less knowing high noses are aborted as of coming years and low-nose design is coming back into play: which fits straight into Mcl's design philosophy.

This year's change kinda reminds me of all that is wrong with Williams: too much change. Williams has been doing that year after year after year and now they're at the back of the field. Just hope mclaren doesn't make the same mistake even though the pattern is slightly present.

2013 is a completely wasted year for Mclaren as for the season itself, but maybe they've realised that all along and they took it as a learning exercise for coming years. They definately've learned the direction they went with this car is compeletely wrong - even though at the start they thought it would pay off in the long run - so let's hope they've abandoned this concept. Them testing out 'new stuff' in the slot races might indicate just that.

I'm kinda looking forwar to the MP4-29 though. I assume it's going to be built with the idea to develop into the honda-powered MP4-30 [could it even become MP5-01?] and be developed to suit Perez' driving style better?

[stefan_]

Abu Dhabi 2013 - Friday (01.11.2013)

[horse]

[Just one big edit after some research] Spa package beam wing since India.

Belgium:



India:

[marcush.]

Reality is -in my perception-teams today are very very much dependend on working from known bases and chipping away on their minute issues .As soon as elementary problems arise they react like a horde of chicken and sverve into all conceiveable directions unstructured and chaotic .

Even though this is a quite harsh statement, there have quite a few examples which absolutely seem to support this.
Therefore I strongly tend to agree. It is probably an indication of how complex these things have become.

I was very reluctant writing this .but:Lotus reverting to the short wheelbase ,Williams dropping the Coanda after not being able to ever understand it enough to gain an advantage seems to bolster my stance.

[henra]

I was very reluctant writing this .but:Lotus reverting to the short wheelbase ,Williams dropping the Coanda after not being able to ever understand it enough to gain an advantage seems to bolster my stance.

Yup.
Or Ferrari going back and forth with their sidepods/exhausts. Or McLaren trying umpteen versions of diffuser/vanes/sidepod details without clear path. Things being added and taken off again. Without measurable effect.
Even in previous seasons Teams sometimes became quicker when they stopped throwing new parts at their car and started simply working with what they have.

The elimination of testing during the season seems to have exacerbated that problem significantly.

[f1rules]

it seems mclaren has gained a lot of rear df. Button in interview telling they couldn't add any more front, i think they even ran a lower df rearwing and the monkey seat has been removed

[turbof1]

it seems mclaren has gained a lot of rear df. Button in interview telling they couldn't add any more front, i think they even ran a lower df rearwing and the monkey seat has been removed

Did he said that litterally? Because it could also mean that if might had been able to add more, but that then the aero balance would be off, in which case rear df is still the limiting factor.

That being said, their current front wing doesn't look like capable of producing loads of downforce. If I am correct, he also complained about understeer, further pointing to more downforce at the back then at the front.

[mikeerfol]

it seems mclaren has gained a lot of rear df. Button in interview telling they couldn't add any more front, i think they even ran a lower df rearwing and the monkey seat has been removed

Did he said that litterally? Because it could also mean that if might had been able to add more, but that then the aero balance would be off, in which case rear df is still the limiting factor.

That being said, their current front wing doesn't look like capable of producing loads of downforce. If I am correct, he also complained about understeer, further pointing to more downforce at the back then at the front.

Button:

I think we struggled to get the tyres working because of the cooler temperatures – I had to take so much rear wing off to try to help balance the car, but it wasn’t enough. We were maxed-out on the front wing, too. There wasn’t anything else I could have done with the car to help the front end, since we were already running very low downforce on the rear – as could be seen by our straightline speeds

[f1rules]

from autosport

But Button believes the extreme set-up adopted this weekend - an aggressive rear wing setting that has the McLarens among the quickest through the speed traps – is a consequence of the car's limitations and will only restrict its performance in the remaining races.

"We were maxed out on the front wing, there isn't anything else we can do to the car to help out with the front end," he added.

To me it sounds like they even had to remove rearing, not even that was enough to balance the car