2014 Design

[wuzak]

They can't do that. Regulations stipulate a max angle for suspension. They are loosing quite a chunk of rear downforce overall. Maybe they'll recover a little bit from the central positioned exhaust and better diffuser efficiency.

Is there any regulation about how wide for example the rear wishbone and connecting arm has to be?

Yes, I think so. Definitely there is a rule that covers chord to thickness ratio, the angle of attack of the suspension element, and that the suspension arms must be symmetrical.

[Bredd]

Apparently red bull might run some 2014 parts in practice. Hamilton said in the press confrence that mercedes are not that far in their 2014 car to do that but most of the updates coming will be 2014 relevant.

[astracrazy]

Apparently red bull might run some 2014 parts in practice. Hamilton said in the press confrence that mercedes are not that far in their 2014 car to do that but most of the updates coming will be 2014 relevant.

I'd be surprised with that was the case. From what Brawn and Newey have said in the past, Merc should be much further ahead. Merc moved at least 50% of there work force onto 2014 a while ago, Newey said Red Bull decreased 2014 sometimes to push for 2013.

I read that as "yes we are testing 2014 parts as well, but we aren't going to say here look at us today we are testing 2014 parts"

[marcush.]

Apparently red bull might run some 2014 parts in practice. Hamilton said in the press confrence that mercedes are not that far in their 2014 car to do that but most of the updates coming will be 2014 relevant.

I'd be surprised with that was the case. From what Brawn and Newey have said in the past, Merc should be much further ahead. Merc moved at least 50% of there work force onto 2014 a while ago, Newey said Red Bull decreased 2014 sometimes to push for 2013.

I read that as "yes we are testing 2014 parts as well, but we aren't going to say here look at us today we are testing 2014 parts"

2014 parts to mount to 2013 cars? that would require compatible interfaces and relevance in terms of concept .you might be interested to see how your new wing designs compare to the current level of your 2013 wing designs and you certainly might be interested to test new production methods or new materials planned for next year and see how they behave under real world conditions.

[Joie de vivre]

too bad FW cascades are not banned

[KingHamilton01]

I had an Idea about a concept but team's would probably lose to much performance from to doing it? I wanted to know what you guy's think. I was wondering if team's might try blowing hot air through there passive Drs system's where they blow air onto the Rear wing. Now im not even sure if Drs system's are getting banned for 2014, just wondered if it might work???

[astracrazy]

its not band next year but i don't know how you would do it. You can't have any body work near the exit of the exhausts and i'm not sure if there was any benefit

[dans79]

I'd be surprised with that was the case. From what Brawn and Newey have said in the past, Merc should be much further ahead. Merc moved at least 50% of there work force onto 2014 a while ago, Newey said Red Bull decreased 2014 sometimes to push for 2013.

I read that as "yes we are testing 2014 parts as well, but we aren't going to say here look at us today we are testing 2014 parts"

I have a sneaking suspicion Merc are experimenting with gear ratios, and low speed down force in preparation for next year. It's the only thing that makes sense to me, as to why they have had such abysmal top speed lately.

[theWPTformula]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned in this thread but there are ways of improving efficiency at the rear of the car without the beam wing.

You can almost create an artificial beamwing using the trailing part of the upper rear wishbone. The regulations dictate that suspension arms can only be of a maximum cross sectional area. However you could place two pieces, of maximum area, side-by-side to create this part of the wishbone. This effectively creates one large section of the wishbone but it is made up of two pieces. Both pieces attach at roughly the same point on the gearbox casing and the rear wheel so mechanically it wouldn't make too much difference.

Obviously you can't create much AoA with suspension members due to the regulations, but having a larger area for the airflow to pass over will help maximise the potential of the brake ducts below and aid airflow passing around the rear wing endplates.

[wuzak]

I had an Idea about a concept but team's would probably lose to much performance from to doing it? I wanted to know what you guy's think. I was wondering if team's might try blowing hot air through there passive Drs system's where they blow air onto the Rear wing. Now im not even sure if Drs system's are getting banned for 2014, just wondered if it might work???

Where are yo getting hot air to blow the passive DRS from?


Not sure how they are doing the blowing of passive DRS now. With the F-duct they ducted the air inside the wing section. Which I thought was illegal, since the rules did, and still do, call for a closed section. How can it be a closed section if there is a slot in it?

[wuzak]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned in this thread but there are ways of improving efficiency at the rear of the car without the beam wing.

You can almost create an artificial beamwing using the trailing part of the upper rear wishbone. The regulations dictate that suspension arms can only be of a maximum cross sectional area. However you could place two pieces, of maximum area, side-by-side to create this part of the wishbone. This effectively creates one large section of the wishbone but it is made up of two pieces. Both pieces attach at roughly the same point on the gearbox casing and the rear wheel so mechanically it wouldn't make too much difference.

Obviously you can't create much AoA with suspension members due to the regulations, but having a larger area for the airflow to pass over will help maximise the potential of the brake ducts below and aid airflow passing around the rear wing endplates.

I don't think you would gain much benefit doing this.

For one, you would not be able to shape the suspension arm to create downforce, as the beam wing is.

[turbof1]

You are missing what thewptformula is trying to tell. By stacking 2 suspension parts you can create downforce as well. Compare it how teams place the camera's above the neutral main plane section at the front wing: both have to be symmetrical and aero neutral individually, yet by stacking them you can still get downforce out of them. He is suggesting that teams could do the same with the rear suspension parts.

The beam wing got increasingly more important in helping the diffuser extract air. If there is a net downforce loss on the improvised beam wing itself but otherwise still getting the same aid to the diffuser, the biggest loss would be nullified.

[FrukostScones]

article with FINDIA taking about its 2014 car:

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.a ... 03004.html

[theWPTformula]

I did state that you cannot create much (if any) downforce directly from the two pieces, but it could help extract more from the brake ducts and the rear wing by managing airflow around this area.

I only mention this because it is an idea that has come up among the teams themselves. I'll reveal more closer to the time but I've had some inside information.

[Blackout]

And is it possible to shape these two parts of the upper wishbone in a way similar to the way many teams are shrouding the transmission arm, the track rod and the lower fishbone trailing part and make these two pieces look similar to the Fw-16 ?