Silly Season 2013/14

[turbof1]

A lack of authority, simply put. I have nothing personally against him, great person, but everybody knows how Malaysia turned out, or Turkey 2010, or Silverstone 2010. He never was able to put his drivers at their place. Imagine this same person negotiating with 12 teams with the sole interest to squeeze as much out of it as they individually can.

You need to have a person who can have a strong hold on the negotiating table. Ross Brawn would be a much better option to be honest.

He is too inexperienced to be honest. Running a team with a sole purpose is one thing, running F1 with more different parties involved then you can fill in a villa, each with their own goals, is quite another.

[Jonnycraig]

A lack of authority, simply put. I have nothing personally against him, great person, but everybody knows how Malaysia turned out, or Turkey 2010, or Silverstone 2010. He never was able to put his drivers at their place. Imagine this same person negotiating with 12 teams with the sole interest to squeeze as much out of it as they individually can.

You need to have a person who can have a strong hold on the negotiating table. Ross Brawn would be a much better option to be honest.

After Malaysia, Horner publicly stated that Vettel was wrong to disobey an order but that it stemmed from Webber doing the same in Brazil 12 & Silverstone 11. Seems a perfectly fine political answer to me. Ultimately we don't know what went on behind the scenes at the RB factory and it's impossible to deduce how he would react faced with a Concorde Agreement to tie down and a room of dissenting team managers.

[turbof1]

After which Vettel was more then happy to publicly state he would do it again. Doesn't sound like Horner's message took effect. Of course if he would do it and turn out to get things succesfully I would take everything I say here back within an instant. But I think he is just too gentle. Bernie got throughout the years a lot of hate. He got spit out more often then not, but ultimately for what he is hired for, he does his job extremely well. CVC got a huge amount of profits because of him. He is an awfully person concerning being social, but brilliant when it comes down to business. Horner is just too nice a guy for that.

[astracrazy]

After which Vettel was more then happy to publicly state he would do it again. Doesn't sound like Horner's message took effect.

exactly. compare it to Ross Brawn at malaysia it was soon put to bed

yes CH has built a successful team (no argument), but its on a big budget and he doesn't drive the car nor does he design it so that can only go so far.

He has a number of traits in his favour but i don't think he has that, i don't know, vicious streak in him to cut the bull. He wouldn't get anywhere.

In a way you need a Ron Dennis like character, just not Ron Dennis.

[turbof1]

After which Vettel was more then happy to publicly state he would do it again. Doesn't sound like Horner's message took effect.

exactly. compare it to Ross Brawn at malaysia it was soon put to bed

yes CH has built a successful team (no argument), but its on a big budget and he doesn't drive the car nor does he design it so that can only go so far.

He has a number of traits in his favour but i don't think he has that, i don't know, vicious streak in him to cut the bull. He wouldn't get anywhere.

In a way you need a Ron Dennis like character, just not Ron Dennis.

Couldn't have described it any better.

CH is btw also not the sole person in charge. Helmut Marko is actually the one running the biggest part at the background. Again, not withstanding Horner's highly social attitude. You probably couldn't imagine a better friend.

[Sevach]

Nah, I dont think it will be Dominicalli...
Will probably be Smedley

I'm surprised that Fry + Tombazis are staying, with the new guys arriving from Lotus i thought they would get the boot.

[SectorOne]

The thing with team principals is that the thought process on how good people perceive they are is in line with the success at the moment.
So Horner in the beginning, still the same guy, but would never ever be thought of as one of the best team principals.

Now, 8 titles in the bag. All of a sudden Horner is considered by many as one of the best team principals right now.

[astracrazy]

Now, 8 titles in the bag. All of a sudden Horner is considered by many as one of the best team principals right now.

really?

[Jonnycraig]

The thing with team principals is that the thought process on how good people perceive they are is in line with the success at the moment.
So Horner in the beginning, still the same guy, but would never ever be thought of as one of the best team principals.

Now, 8 titles in the bag. All of a sudden Horner is considered by many as one of the best team principals right now.

He's got a combined 16 titles in his 16 years as a team principal, plus another 17 top 3s. Is there anyone out there right now that can compete with that record?

[Shrieker]

Team principal at Red Bull is Marko. Horner is just a public relations officer. Ask Jaime and Webber if you won't take my word for it.

[zeph]

Humbug. I'll take Bernie's word for it.

[SectorOne]

He's got a combined 16 titles in his 16 years as a team principal, plus another 17 top 3s. Is there anyone out there right now that can compete with that record?

Stick to Formula 1. If they are to compete you need to have some equal playing field.
Since Brawn for example started out as a mechanic at Williams F1 team and before that was a milling machine operator and mechanic it can´t be compared to what Horner did prior to Formula 1.

Now, 8 titles in the bag. All of a sudden Horner is considered by many as one of the best team principals right now.

really?

Yea i think so, like with Newey. When the cars are bad, not much is said about Newey, then he just nails incredible cars and the genius tag is thrown around.

I think it´s a natural thing to look at the most succesful at the time and say they are the best.
If they are or are not is up for discussion, one i rather not indulge in but just trying to point out that "you are only as good as your last race" type thinking.

[Shrieker]

Humbug. I'll take Bernie's word for it.

I can understand if it doesn't make any sense to you. In a company, a man who fires and lambastes whomever he wishes is more 'principal' than the man who begs to his driver over the radio.

Now think about that for a bit

[Jonnycraig]

Stick to Formula 1. If they are to compete you need to have some equal playing field.
Since Brawn for example started out as a mechanic at Williams F1 team and before that was a milling machine operator and mechanic it can´t be compared to what Horner did prior to Formula 1.

Eh? You yourself claimed that Horner was being hyped as a TP for his success with Red Bull, whereas infact he's had a very successful record throughout his nearly 20 years running racing teams. The reason Horner was appointed by RB in itself was that he had been running very successful feeder teams.

[antiuser]

Word on the grapevine is Sirotkin is out of the picture at Sauber. Pérez and Nasr in the running for a seat there.