2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[Holm86]

Sorry if it has been asked before but what will the idle rpm be approximately?

I dont really know. But as the cams dont need to be as aggressive in a turbocharged engine as in a naturally aspirated one, and that the peak power will be at 10.500 instead of 18.000 rpm makes me guess that ide could be relatively low. Perhaps in the 1500-2500 rpm range.

[Owen.C93]

As I understand it it's lack of flywheel that requires the high RPM idle? Not sure whether with turbos 2k RPM will be powerful or in a massive lag zone.

[FW17]

Can the lubrication system be designed to add the lubricants with anti-knock / anti-detonation additives into the combustion chamber?

Why would that be needed? There's no upper limit on fuel's RON now IIRC.

The max RON allowed is 102

Can the lubrication system be designed to add the lubricants with anti-knock / anti-detonation additives into the combustion chamber?

I dont see the idea in that. This would mean that the lubricant should have to leak into the combustion chamber. And engine oil in the combustion decreases the octane number actually. So there is no idea in that.

Regular engine oil in fuel will reduce RON by up to 2, but regulations on lube is not as tight as of fuel and can be designed to get around it.

The challenge would be to achieve a clean mix with air and fuel.

Lube can also be topped up prior to post race inspection.

[Holm86]

As I understand it it's lack of flywheel that requires the high RPM idle? Not sure whether with turbos 2k RPM will be powerful or in a massive lag zone.

Should not be because of the flywheel. Motorcycle engines has almost no flywheel either. And they are cabable of idleing at just above 1000 rpm.

[timbo]

Can the lubrication system be designed to add the lubricants with anti-knock / anti-detonation additives into the combustion chamber?

Why would that be needed? There's no upper limit on fuel's RON now IIRC.

The max RON allowed is 102

It was pre 2014, but in http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... 7.2013.pdf
there's no max limit set.

[Holm86]

Yes it only calls for a minimum of 87 (RON+MON)/2. No maximum.

[FW17]

I missed that one

but the following lines make it impossible to have a fuel with hing RON numbers

19.1.2 The detailed requirements of this Article are intended to ensure the use of fuels that are
composed of compounds normally found in commercial fuels and to prohibit the use of
specific power-boosting chemical compounds.

19.1.3 Any petrol, which appears to have been formulated in order to subvert the purpose of this
regulation, will be deemed to be outside it.

[timbo]

I missed that one

but the following lines make it impossible to have a fuel with hing RON numbers

19.1.2 The detailed requirements of this Article are intended to ensure the use of fuels that are
composed of compounds normally found in commercial fuels and to prohibit the use of
specific power-boosting chemical compounds.

19.1.3 Any petrol, which appears to have been formulated in order to subvert the purpose of this
regulation, will be deemed to be outside it.

Yes, but there are hydrocarbon compounds with RON far above 102, so I don't think that would be much of a problem.

[dren]

Didn't the old turbo cars run on a high percentage of toluene? I think its RON is 114 or abouts.

[timbo]

Didn't the old turbo cars run on a high percentage of toluene? I think its RON is 114 or abouts.

Yep, Honda ran on something about 80% toluene in 1988, it was desired due to its density and is documented in that famous paper on Honda turbo engines. However, regs for 2014 put limit on aromatics content, so 80% toluene is not possible.

[ringo]

Is steel pistons necessary?? I thought they would just use some sort of aluminium alloy with a ceramic heat barrier coating on top and low friction coatings on the skirts.

And Mahle delivers pistons to Mercedes right??

I think when it comes to longevity and overall strength, steel is the best choice.
Aluminum will always be lighter, however it's specific modulus is not as high as steel ( stiffness per mass of material).
Another way of looking at it is the young's modulus per density. Steel is about 3 times greater in that regard.

[wuzak]

Is steel pistons necessary?? I thought they would just use some sort of aluminium alloy with a ceramic heat barrier coating on top and low friction coatings on the skirts.

And Mahle delivers pistons to Mercedes right??

I think when it comes to longevity and overall strength, steel is the best choice.
Aluminum will always be lighter, however it's specific modulus is not as high as steel ( stiffness per mass of material).
Another way of looking at it is the young's modulus per density. Steel is about 3 times greater in that regard.

Young's modulus of Aluminium is ~70GPa. Density ~2700kg/m^3
Young's modulus of Steel is ~200GPa. Density ~7800kg/m^3

70/2700 = 0.02592
200/7800 = 0.02564

In other words, about the same.

There goes that argument. Basically for the same weight you can have more material with aluminium, which can help with stiffness (where section properties play a big part).

You could talk in terms of tensile strength, but there is a wide variety of grades of steel and aluminium, and thus a wide variety in tensile strengths.

[timbo]

There goes that argument. Basically for the same weight you can have more material with aluminium, which can help with stiffness (where section properties play a big part).

You could talk in terms of tensile strength, but there is a wide variety of grades of steel and aluminium, and thus a wide variety in tensile strengths.

Yeah, which is why it is used so much.
However, the properties of aluminium quickly degrade with temperature. Over a certain threshold one should go with steel or titanium. That's why planes flying around 3M speed were built from titanium (SR-71) or steel (Mig-25 Foxbat). The threshold IIRC is around 300C.

[xpensive]

...
Aluminum will always be lighter, however it's specific modulus is not as high as steel ( stiffness per mass of material).
Another way of looking at it is the young's modulus per density. Steel is about 3 times greater in that regard.
...

Young's modulus of Aluminium is ~70GPa. Density ~2700kg/m^3
Young's modulus of Steel is ~200GPa. Density ~7800kg/m^3

70/2700 = 0.02592
200/7800 = 0.02564

In other words, about the same.

There goes that argument. Basically for the same weight you can have more material with aluminium, which can help with stiffness (where section properties play a big part).

You could talk in terms of tensile strength, but there is a wide variety of grades of steel and aluminium, and thus a wide variety in tensile strengths.

And what do you know?;

Titanium: 116/4500 = 0.0258
Magnesium: 45/1740 = 0.0259

[wuzak]

There goes that argument. Basically for the same weight you can have more material with aluminium, which can help with stiffness (where section properties play a big part).

You could talk in terms of tensile strength, but there is a wide variety of grades of steel and aluminium, and thus a wide variety in tensile strengths.

Yeah, which is why it is used so much.
However, the properties of aluminium quickly degrade with temperature. Over a certain threshold one should go with steel or titanium. That's why planes flying around 3M speed were built from titanium (SR-71) or steel (Mig-25 Foxbat). The threshold IIRC is around 300C.

I should imagine that varies with the grade of alloy.

For instance, car engines have been using aluminium alloys in pistons for a very long time and the temperature inside the combustion chmaber is much more than 300C.

I woul dthink that aluminium alloys are better at disspating heat as well.