2014 - Exhaust Exits

[Holm86]

The wastegate dumps exhaust gas. It is used to regulate boost pressure by regulating how much exhaust gas flows through the turbine side of the turbo. Since there is a motor/generator attached to the turbo, it will load up and regulate turbo speed and boost.

A blow off valve dumps compressed intake air when you lift off throttle so the turbo stays spooled. The motor generator can spool the turbo, so not sure if there will be much of a need for a blow off valve.

There could still be a wastegate for security reasons. If the MGUH stops working you got no way to control the boost.

And the blow off valve could help for reliability reasons. The chokwave created when the throttle closes could hurt the turbo. Unless they do as I suggested.

[dren]

I think they'll do as you suggest, leave the throttle open and cut fuel/spark.

[tuj]

Next year everything is about maximizing the most of your energy. Therefore I strongly doubt there will be any wastegates or blow-off valves as both release pressurized air to the atmosphere, or if either device is present, it will only be as a back-up for a loss of the ERS on the turbo. Lag will be non-existent as the turbo will spool up via the ERS on the turbo when the driver gets on the throttle.

[Holm86]

Next year everything is about maximizing the most of your energy. Therefore I strongly doubt there will be any wastegates or blow-off valves as both release pressurized air to the atmosphere, or if either device is present, it will only be as a back-up for a loss of the ERS on the turbo. Lag will be non-existent as the turbo will spool up via the ERS on the turbo when the driver gets on the throttle.

Neither if present can release anything into the atmosphere. The wastegate would have to exit into the exhaust and so would the blow off if a such was present.

And we are not talking about lag here.

[Blackout]

What about the wastegate (if there is one)? I read the regulations (not everything though : p) but as I understnad it, the wastagte can have its own exhaust pipe/doesnt need to be merged with the main exhaust outlet. Am I wrong ?

And what about the blow off valve ?

If there will be a wastegate it cant have its own exhaust exit.

5.8.2 Engine exhaust systems must have only a single tailpipe exit which must be rearward facing and through which all exhaust gases must pass.

Im not quite sure about the blow-off.

But I suggested something earlier this year which would also remove much of the need of running a blow-off valve.

I suggested that they should run cold blowing of the engine if that is allowed in 2014. This means when the driver lifts off the throttle pedal the throttle plates should open 100% instead of closing as normal. This would keep a higher flow through the turbo so you can harvest more energy with the MGU-H. It would decrease pumping losses which would decrease natural engine braking effect which allows the MGU-K to harvest a larger procentage during braking. And last it would prevent the shockwave moving backward from the throttleplate to the compressor when the throttleplate closes. The fuel and ignition would off course be cut.

IMO it should be legal as there is no aerodynamic advantage from cold blowing next year with the new exhaust exit regulations.

=D>

[wuzak]

What about the wastegate (if there is one)? I read the regulations (not everything though : p) but as I understnad it, the wastagte can have its own exhaust pipe/doesnt need to be merged with the main exhaust outlet. Am I wrong ?

And what about the blow off valve ?

If there will be a wastegate it cant have its own exhaust exit.

5.8.2 Engine exhaust systems must have only a single tailpipe exit which must be rearward facing and through which all exhaust gases must pass.

Im not quite sure about the blow-off.

But I suggested something earlier this year which would also remove much of the need of running a blow-off valve.

I suggested that they should run cold blowing of the engine if that is allowed in 2014. This means when the driver lifts off the throttle pedal the throttle plates should open 100% instead of closing as normal. This would keep a higher flow through the turbo so you can harvest more energy with the MGU-H. It would decrease pumping losses which would decrease natural engine braking effect which allows the MGU-K to harvest a larger procentage during braking. And last it would prevent the shockwave moving backward from the throttleplate to the compressor when the throttleplate closes. The fuel and ignition would off course be cut.

IMO it should be legal as there is no aerodynamic advantage from cold blowing next year with the new exhaust exit regulations.

=D>

Can't open the throttle without the driver having the pedal down.

The only reason it has been allowed the last couple of years is because of Renault's sob story about cooling the exhaust. I doubt Renault used this in 2006 when the V8 debuted. And I doubt that it would be allowed next year.

[thisisatest]

i couldnt find it in the 2014 regs, but for 2013, 0% at the pedal could be between 0 and 30% at the butterflies, as long as engine torque was 0 (or less).
source:
http://www.f1technical.net/features/18247

[tuj]

There is a spec in the regs that says the pedal map gradient cannot be steeper than X. The pedal cannot have detents or other characteristics to identify a particular throttle point. The engine must deliver X amount of torque within 50ms, where X is a value in the pedal map. I didn't see anything in the regs about throttles (ie no definition or anything) so maybe someone can get creative enough to run their engine without butterflies at all? Just cut spark and fuel, right?

So it seems to me that a given pedal positions must generate a given amount of torque (ie the accelerator has become a 'torque-demand' pedal, as it has for the last several years under EBD maps). But I see nothing in the regs regarding the actual butterflies in relation to pedal position.

[Holm86]

They could always claim that they are doing it for reliability reasons to spare the turbo. And with the 2014 regulations removing the aero use of exhausts (as we currently know of) it wont give them an aero advantage.

[Steven]

A few drawings of where the exhaust must exit found in this article as well
http://www.f1technical.net/features/19020

[Holm86]

A few drawings of where the exhaust must exit found in this article as well
http://www.f1technical.net/features/19020

The exhaust can also have an angle of +/- 5° to the cars centerline when viewed from above. You left that out

[Joie de vivre]

A few drawings of where the exhaust must exit found in this article as well
http://www.f1technical.net/features/19020

The exhaust can also have an angle of +/- 5° to the cars centerline when viewed from above. You left that out

"The final part of this pipe is very strictly defined. Its diameter must be between 98mm and 134mm, no part of it may be more than 100mm from the car's centre line and it must exit either horizontally, or up to 5° upward."

[Holm86]

A few drawings of where the exhaust must exit found in this article as well
http://www.f1technical.net/features/19020

The exhaust can also have an angle of +/- 5° to the cars centerline when viewed from above. You left that out

"The final part of this pipe is very strictly defined. Its diameter must be between 98mm and 134mm, no part of it may be more than 100mm from the car's centre line and it must exit either horizontally, or up to 5° upward."

Whats your point?

[wuzak]

A few drawings of where the exhaust must exit found in this article as well
http://www.f1technical.net/features/19020

The exhaust can also have an angle of +/- 5° to the cars centerline when viewed from above. You left that out

"The final part of this pipe is very strictly defined. Its diameter must be between 98mm and 134mm, no part of it may be more than 100mm from the car's centre line and it must exit either horizontally, or up to 5° upward."

5.8.4 The last 150mm of any tailpipe must in its entirety :
a) Form a thin-walled unobstructed right circular cylinder with its axis +/- 5° to the car centre line when viewed from above the car and between 0° and 5° (tail up) to the reference plane when viewed from the side of the car. The entire circumference of the exit should lie on a single plane normal to the tailpipe axis and be located at the rearmost extremity of the last 150mm of the tailpipe.

[Holm86]

Precisely wuzak