2014 Design

[timbo]

but nobody tell me what advantage a F1 can have with this design

The idea is to get as much air towards the splitter (below the nosecone) as possible.

[Giando]

I dont have all changes of regulation but its the only way to push more air flow under the car ?

It's the main way f1 teams have chosen - in different ways - in the past, well, 23 years...

My point is: do not exclude any possibility!

[Schifty]

I have made my own idea about wind flow under the car. Scarb design let more flow than a normal lowered nose but still not enough and i really think they will use front wing to push the wind flow under the car like my really crapy draw lol

[henra]

I dont have all changes of regulation but its the only way to push more air flow under the car ?

Pretty much: Yup.

[atanatizante]

I dont have all changes of regulation but its the only way to push more air flow under the car ?

How about a bigger "letter box" which gets the airflow towards tea-tray ?
This hole could it be placed on the nose cone?

[djos]

We might even see a return to Newey putting a slot in the nose of the RB10, where the step is currently, is to feed more air to the underside of the nose?

[Giando]

I have made my own idea about wind flow under the car. Scarb design let more flow than a normal lowered nose but still not enough and i really think they will use front wing to push the wind flow under the car like my really crapy draw lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/ ... G_0067.jpg

Nice one Schifty.

It could be a possibility.

The 'problem' i can see is that the 'volume' of the nose cone will deviate quite a lot of air on the two sides of it, of course, so you need to understand how the flows coming from the double curved plates you put on the f-wing will interact with them...

And also... it seems that you should cut quite a big part of the flaps surface in the front wing, which means downforce.

[bonjon1979]

I have made my own idea about wind flow under the car. Scarb design let more flow than a normal lowered nose but still not enough and i really think they will use front wing to push the wind flow under the car like my really crapy draw lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/ ... G_0067.jpg

Nice one Schifty.

It could be a possibility.

The 'problem' i can see is that the 'volume' of the nose cone will deviate quite a lot of air on the two sides of it, of course, so you need to understand how the flows coming from the double curved plates you put on the f-wing will interact with them...

And also... it seems that you should cut quite a big part of the flaps surface in the front wing, which means downforce.

True but with so much downforce gone from the rear end you're going to want to have less at the front anyway. I think this is a interesting design, wouldn't be surprised to see it pop up.

[Giando]

True but with so much downforce gone from the rear end you're going to want to have less at the front anyway. I think this is a interesting design, wouldn't be surprised to see it pop up.

Could be true but, honestly, looking at the way the 2013 Williams worked in the last races without the Coanda exhausts effect, and given that the 15 cm reduction of the front wing width should somehow already compensate the loss of the beam wings and the reduction of 2 cm in height for the upper wings at the back... i am not so sure that teams wouldn't go for a 'maximum' use of flaps on the front wing...

[Holm86]

I have made my own idea about wind flow under the car. Scarb design let more flow than a normal lowered nose but still not enough and i really think they will use front wing to push the wind flow under the car like my really crapy draw lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/ ... G_0067.jpg

Nice one Schifty.

It could be a possibility.

The 'problem' i can see is that the 'volume' of the nose cone will deviate quite a lot of air on the two sides of it, of course, so you need to understand how the flows coming from the double curved plates you put on the f-wing will interact with them...

And also... it seems that you should cut quite a big part of the flaps surface in the front wing, which means downforce.

True but with so much downforce gone from the rear end you're going to want to have less at the front anyway. I think this is a interesting design, wouldn't be surprised to see it pop up.

Precisely. This is what I believe as well. This is what I've been talking about for a long time.

And I really like Schifty's front wing design.

Could be true but, honestly, looking at the way the 2013 Williams worked in the last races without the Coanda exhausts effect, and given that the 15 cm reduction of the front wing width should somehow already compensate the loss of the beam wings and the reduction of 2 cm in height for the upper wings at the back... i am not so sure that teams wouldn't go for a 'maximum' use of flaps on the front wing...

I dont believe that 150mm narrower front wings will compensate for the loss of the beam wing, coanda and shallower rear wings.

And Williams is a bad example. Just because they did better without the coanda doesnt mean that other teams will do fine without as well. Williams coanda didnt work thats why they didnt lose anything in removing it. And without wasting time on that they could find gains in other areas where their adjustments actually worked.

If you this year removed the coanda exhaust from the RB9 it would lose a lot of its pace im sure.

[Giando]

I dont believe that 150mm narrower front wings will compensate for the loss of the beam wing, coanda and shallower rear wings.

And Williams is a bad example. Just because they did better without the coanda doesnt mean that other teams will do fine without as well. Williams coanda didnt work thats why they didnt lose anything in removing it. And without wasting time on that they could find gains in other areas where their adjustments actually worked.

If you this year removed the coanda exhaust from the RB9 it would lose a lot of its pace im sure.

Just a couple of months and we'll know the truth!

Can't wait...

[scarbs]

I really like the look of shifty’s front end, it’s a possible solution.

It does have downsides however, it loses the endplate’s effect on the tyre wake. Much of the current outwash design and cascades are aimed at reducing the vortices and separated flow around the outer face and top of the front tyre. It’s this flow that upsets rear end aero performance and creates drag in itself.

Secondly ramming the front wing wake in between the front wheels will end up upsetting the flow within the Y250 area, which is the flow that actually reaches the floors leading edge.

IMO the 75mm narrowing of the front wing, it will not end up being hard to twist the wing even tighter outwards, to keep the outwash vortices improving the tyre wake. Secondly the loss of aero at the rear (EBD and beam wing) will end up leaving the front wing more than powerful enough to balance the car. Thus more of its shape can be used for flow control rather than DF.

[Holm86]

IMO the 75mm narrowing of the front wing, it will not end up being hard to twist the wing even tighter outwards, to keep the outwash vortices improving the tyre wake. Secondly the loss of aero at the rear (EBD and beam wing) will end up leaving the front wing more than powerful enough to balance the car. Thus more of its shape can be used for flow control rather than DF.

This is what ive been saying. That the front wing is powerful enough to balance the car. So you can afford to shed some DF on the FW to use it as a flow diverter. But i would still think that you would want more air inwards to get more air to the diffuser. And you could still divert air both inwards and outwards of the tires.

I like Schiftys design. But im not completely sure about his outer endplate. And if this is a route to go i think we will see VG's on the inner endplate. Im not good at freehand drawing so cant really explain my ideas

[Schifty]

I have made my own idea about wind flow under the car. Scarb design let more flow than a normal lowered nose but still not enough and i really think they will use front wing to push the wind flow under the car like my really crapy draw lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/ ... G_0067.jpg

Nice one Schifty.

It could be a possibility.

The 'problem' i can see is that the 'volume' of the nose cone will deviate quite a lot of air on the two sides of it, of course, so you need to understand how the flows coming from the double curved plates you put on the f-wing will interact with them...

And also... it seems that you should cut quite a big part of the flaps surface in the front wing, which means downforce.

I've make it fast and i've just showed what important design i have in mind

[horse]

Secondly ramming the front wing wake in between the front wheels will end up upsetting the flow within the Y250 area, which is the flow that actually reaches the floors leading edge.

Quite. You might well achieve the opposite of the purpose you are designing for as the interaction of the two wakes may actually cause higher pressures under the nose, reducing the flow rate.