Mercedes F1 W05 Pre-launch Speculation

[ringo]

I don't think it's what the fric is doing that Lewis doesn't want to turn the car.
He can do what he likes with the car otherwise. What his problem is is that the fric, which prevents the car from diving, is giving him vague feedback.
In essence he cannot feel the car and react to that feeling in the same way he would react when the nose tips down.

It's similar to the modern cars with electric power steering. It doesn't take away from the behavior of the car, but it takes away from the signal that the driver's brain uses to react.

[flmkane]

I don't think it's what the fric is doing that Lewis doesn't want to turn the car.
He can do what he likes with the car otherwise. What his problem is is that the fric, which prevents the car from diving, is giving him vague feedback.
In essence he cannot feel the car and react to that feeling in the same way he would react when the nose tips down.

It's similar to the modern cars with electric power steering. It doesn't take away from the behavior of the car, but it takes away from the signal that the driver's brain uses to react.

That could also have been a problem for Schumacher. He too relied on heavy trail braking.

But how come active suspension in the 90s did not cause issues like this for Senna and Prost?

[Huntresa]

I don't think it's what the fric is doing that Lewis doesn't want to turn the car.
He can do what he likes with the car otherwise. What his problem is is that the fric, which prevents the car from diving, is giving him vague feedback.
In essence he cannot feel the car and react to that feeling in the same way he would react when the nose tips down.

It's similar to the modern cars with electric power steering. It doesn't take away from the behavior of the car, but it takes away from the signal that the driver's brain uses to react.

That could also have been a problem for Schumacher. He too relied on heavy trail braking.

But how come active suspension in the 90s did not cause issues like this for Senna and Prost?

But they had more then Active Susp, then had TC and ABS aswell.

[wunderkind]

It was the same during the peak of the technology boom of the DTM (ITC) days. The older drivers had problems adapting to the actively suspended, traction-controlled, and ABS-equipped race cars. The engineers told their drivers to just trust the systems and have faith that the wheels would not lock up under hard braking and the wheels would turn as they were designed to.

[kooleracer]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formul ... blems.html

Lewis Hamilton believes he has to regain the confidence of everyone at Mercedes after admitting to a braking problem that has put the skids under his campaign.
Hamilton has come clean for the reasons behind his lack of pace relative to team-mate and Monaco Grand Prix winner Nico Rosberg, saying he has suffering a season-long issue with braking that has affected his confidence in the car.
'It's all about my feeling in the car. I'm confident the car is a great one. Nico has proven that with his victory in Monaco,' said Hamilton.

'But you have to feel at one with the car, and I'm definitely not feeling at one with it at the moment, and it's all in the braking.
'Never in my life have I had brake problems, or a lack of confidence in the brakes, since I started out in karts at five years old. This is the first time I've experienced it, so it has caught me a little off guard.
'When you brake it's all about feel through your boot, the reaction of the car when you hit the brakes. There are so many different things that give you that confidence.
'When I was at McLaren we worked on the brakes for a long time, we got it right and it was the same for six years.
'Here at Mercedes we're working on it. It's not unfixable.

'I can change them if I want or I can just get used to them, and I prefer to grab a hold of it, get used to them and do a good job.'
Hamilton's problems could be brought into sharp focus this weekend, with Montreal's Circuit Gilles Villeneuve renowned as a track tough on brakes.
Although Hamilton knows how to win at this circuit having taken the chequered flag on three occasions, he appreciates circumstances might be different this weekend.
'This track is all about late-braking. I've always been the latest of brakers, which is why I've been so successful here," the 28-year-old added.
'I've always been strong here in a car I've felt confident in. I have a car now I don't particularly feel comfortable in.

'While it's a great car, I can't say I've just clicked with it like that. So I hope I get in the car and I feel better this weekend, and I hope we've been able to rectify a couple of issues and that my confidence comes back.

I Think winter testing for Lewis will be about learning the new engine etc, and a heavy emphasis on braking. The W05 will be more tuned for his liking then this years car. They have his input now so they now know what he likes and make tailor made breaks for him. They already started late this season with Brembo.

In the United States, Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton (and not team mate Nico Rosberg) had new brake calipers made by Brembo. In this drawing - without the discs mounted - the differently shaped pads used in the new set-up are visible.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/ ... /1125.html

So it has nothing to do with FRIC, otherwise then why would they make special brakes for Lewis. Its has to do with the current braking system Mercedes is using(Brembo). Lewis was used to Akebono and now he has to work with Brembo to get that feel he had with the Akebono back. FRIC is more stable than ordinary suspension system it give a more stable platform, the nose still dives but not as heavy as before. I think it even helps under braking rather than hindering Lewis. In theory Lewis should be able to brake even later because the car produces more downforce because the aero platform differentiates less with FRIC. So more DF available which allows later braking.

[raymondu999]

I don't think it's what the fric is doing that Lewis doesn't want to turn the car.
He can do what he likes with the car otherwise. What his problem is is that the fric, which prevents the car from diving, is giving him vague feedback.
In essence he cannot feel the car and react to that feeling in the same way he would react when the nose tips down.

It's similar to the modern cars with electric power steering. It doesn't take away from the behavior of the car, but it takes away from the signal that the driver's brain uses to react.

That could also have been a problem for Schumacher. He too relied on heavy trail braking.

But how come active suspension in the 90s did not cause issues like this for Senna and Prost?

I think Patrese Mansell serves as a better example

[theformula]

Out of interest, will the cars from 2014 onwards be less susceptible to losing aero performance when following closely behind another car due to the narrower front wing? This played a big part in the lack of overtaking in recent years IMO.

[SectorOne]

Good question,
I guess the car in front will move less air away with the decreased downforce levels but then again you have a smaller front wing so maybe it evens out to the same effect we have today.

[turbof1]

Crucially, the exhaust flow, which is highly turbulent behind the car, will be centered, which will hit the neutral section of the front wing. The removal of the beam wing also helps a tiny bit.

One question mark is how far teams will go with vortices. When vortices break apart, they leave behind a lot of turbulent air. Teams increasingly got better in exploiting vortices, as seen at the red bull car. It could easily end up with cars having even more trouble following eachother in high speed corners.

[tuj]

Out of interest, will the cars from 2014 onwards be less susceptible to losing aero performance when following closely behind another car due to the narrower front wing?

I was under the impression that the lack of aero performance when trailing was largely due to the diffuser's wake hitting the front wing of the car in trail. With less/no reliance on EBD and the exhaust exits higher and on centerline, maybe the aero performance for the trailing car won't be as bad. Still affected, just not as much?

I personally would like to see active front wing controlled by driver that could help compensate for this scenario.

[SectorOne]

I personally would like to see active front wing controlled by driver that could help compensate for this scenario.

They had this in 2009 i believe. They could change the AoA once per lap or something.

[Helios]

I personally would like to see active front wing controlled by driver that could help compensate for this scenario.

They had this in 2009 i believe. They could change the AoA once per lap or something.

2010 aswell I think (for the last time before it was banned for 2011).

[tuj]

Maybe they didn't allow enough freedom in adjusting the front wing? I don't know, I would have thought that increasing AoA would be at least partially effective in trailing wake.

But then I found this: http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews ... 11640.html

Q: Last year’s moveable front wing has been dropped in favour of an adjustable rear wing. Do you think it will prove more successful than its predecessor in boosting overtaking?
PL: I certainly do. It has a lot more leverage. The adjustable front wing was introduced along with the OWG (Overtaking Work Group) regulations in 2009 and it was really only intended as a mild adjustment for a driver to trim the balance of the car when in the wake and while attempting to overtake another car. I was a member of the OWG and we actually put it in there as an insurance policy as we were all a bit worried that if we had got it wrong the car would be very unbalanced in the wake and possibly have oversteer. As it turned out nobody used the front wing for that purpose at all, we only really used it to make mild adjustments during the race for balance. So we all agreed last year that we would get rid of it in the interests of simplicity and cost saving because it would be the same for everybody. It will add a bit more of a challenge in the race, in terms of balance, because now we will have to make any front-wing adjustments in the pit stop

And this: http://www.racecar-engineering.com/arti ... they-work/

Along with the arrival of adjustable rear wings is the departure of adjustable front wings – a concept that never really delivered what was expected of it, as Renault Technical Director, James Allison, explains: “The moveable front flap was brought in to try and assist with overtaking, but in practice it didn’t really make a difference. Instead it was used as a device to optimise car balance as the tyres degraded and the fuel load reduced. That’s why the teams voted to remove adjustable front wings and try a new initiative with the rear wings with the intention of generating better overtaking opportunities.”

[dren]

Wolf stated the team dumped too much into fixing the rear tire issues with the W04 and then the tire change hurt them that much more mid season. Let's hope they get the tires right from the start...

[tuj]

Hamilton said in an interview that he had trouble getting to grips with braking on the 2013 car. I wonder if this has anything to do with the FRIC's? He said something to the effect that he had always been good at braking even in his karting days and they worked a lot on brakes at Macca. I'm wondering if the FRIC's system kept weight from transferring forward to give traction to the fronts and that impacted his performance during the year?