Mercedes F1 W05 Pre-launch Speculation

[Ferraripilot]

As I read Lewis' comments regarding braking confidence, I am of the position that he needs to make changes to himself rather than the car, which was designed as a F1 suspension system should optimally be designed which has a primary purpose of keeping the car level at all times so ride height can be as close to static at all times thus allowing for a lower static ride height. Lewis cannot ask that the very nature of the cars' suspension be altered without requesting the system be removed altogether which is not an option. The system appears to be volatile but they are really getting their hands around it, so Lewis can only hope the car will be more predictable than ever going forward.


A major question I have regarding W04 vs RB9 is, with W04 being quicker in qualy trim on so many occasions, how much of that was due to W04s suspension system vs W04s aerodynamic prowess. I suspect W04 did not have near the aero RB9 had as RB9s slim 2014 spec rear wing they were able to run all year proves they had a distinct advantage in this department, but with W04s superior suspension system, were Mercedes able to make up that half second difference in aero performance with a suspension system alone? I believe the gap was possibly that big, but 2014 and W05 will prove this more clearly as the aero field will be far more level meaning we will be able to clearly see just how good the 'Fric' system (or whatever they may call it internally) really is.

If W05 proves its suspension system -which was ironed out with W04- is truly superior to the rest of the field then I believe Merc will have invented the latest version of F1's 'silver bullet'. We, as fans, have been blinded by RB's aerodynamic superiority for so long that we possibly could fathom anyone out-Red Bulling Red Bull, which I believe Mercedes Benz weren't trying to specifically do, hence their potentially genius suspension system which took them so long to produce and perfect, which in turn provides a distinct advantage as other teams will require an equivalent time frame to produce.

Best these holidays,
John

[turbof1]

I wouldn't call the fric system a silver bullet; it took them several years of gathering data all over the tracks to make it work that good. This is certainly not something that teams can look at say "if we install that we'll get the same advantage".

[PhillipM]

It's also not likely something that makes much difference, just enough that it lets you refine the aerodynamics, rather than much gains in the suspension performance per-se.
Interlinked suspension isn't exactly something magic, every team on the grid has it in one form or another - hell, I've even got it on a clubman car built out of scrapyard parts - but of course there will be differences in effectiveness and tuning.

[Ferraripilot]

I wouldn't call the fric system a silver bullet; it took them several years of gathering data all over the tracks to make it work that good. This is certainly not something that teams can look at say "if we install that we'll get the same advantage".

That's the trick to the advantage though isn't it, it took them a long time gathering data to make it work, which is just where others will fall short if they attempt such a system, that is of course if the system proves to be that important, which I actually believe it is. The proof is in W03 taking pole at Monaco, that car otherwise was incapable.

[Ferraripilot]

It's also not likely something that makes much difference, just enough that it lets you refine the aerodynamics, rather than much gains in the suspension performance per-se.
Interlinked suspension isn't exactly something magic, every team on the grid has it in one form or another - hell, I've even got it on a clubman car built out of scrapyard parts - but of course there will be differences in effectiveness and tuning.

IMO, no and yes. It makes a difference to the point that MB found it necessary to spend as much time as they have developing it, otherwise they wouldn't have gone that far and they would have accommodated their new and extremely expensive driver (Lewis).

Several teams are indeed running connected suspensions, but apparently per Lewis at least at Mclaren it wasn't as advanced as MB's system, otherwise Lewis really wouldn't be noting any issues with driving such a 'different' car would he? I doubt it. MB seems to have a fundamentally different car to drive.

[turbof1]

Mercedes turned it into quite an advantage. Earlier in the season they were absolutely stunning in slow corners. Canada was perhaps the most obvious example of this: every other car had to take a wider line in the last chicane; if you hit the kerbs too agressive, the car becomes unstable with a good chance that you end up in the wall of champions. However, Mercedes was able to take a much, much tighter line there, using a lot more kerb, which is a feat of the fric system.

[dren]

The system has a two fold advantage:

1. It resists diving under braking and squatting in high speed corners. This allows the team to run a lower static ride height. I would guess this is what most other teams connected suspensions are doing, or at least resisting the diving under braking.

2. It allows much softer spring rates to be run. This is where their slow speed cornering benefit lies. This is the major difference between the Merc system and the others.

Other teams link front to rear but run conventional systems. The Mercedes system likely has the car sprung under hydraulic pressure, though it was stated they still use conventional anti-roll bars, which leads me to believe it's not linked side to side. Although, if it could be completely interlinked, which would give control over all 4 modes, which in turn would use some sort of spring/damper for the roll mode.

DaveW and others talked about the system's probable innerworkings here: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... &start=330

[Richard]

please refer testing talk in the appropriate thread. This is the 2014 car contender thread.

Agree. I asked Richard to clean this thread up earlier. There is so much going on in this thread that has nothing to do with the car. Wonder when he will reply.

I agree, off topic comments deleted.

This is the place to talk about the 2014 car, not the weather in Monaco, who overtook Massa at Silverstone, Pirelli tyres, or Hamilton's high altitude trampolining.

[Holm86]

please refer testing talk in the appropriate thread. This is the 2014 car contender thread.

Agree. I asked Richard to clean this thread up earlier. There is so much going on in this thread that has nothing to do with the car. Wonder when he will reply.

I agree, off topic comments deleted.

This is the place to talk about the 2014 car, not the weather in Monaco, who overtook Massa at Silverstone, Pirelli tyres, or Hamilton's high altitude trampolining.

Thanks Richard.

[atanatizante]

Now I think it's related to 2014 to discuss about 3 things:
1. It`s fair to say that one of the Hamy`s brake issues was also down to his inability to cope with situations when he need to use the brake balance adjuster as we heard in some races over the radio by his race engineer ? Cuz in McLaren he didn`t have this system ... and I think RB didn`t have also, isn`t it?
2. He didn`t went to Bahrein test cuz he was busy in the sim (as someone said earlier when he visited the factory) not just to try to adapt more to the 2014 car but also to cope with a new issue : the 2014 regs regarding how operates the brake balance system ...
3. Now the team has all the 3 sims fully functional and that for each driver and also for Sam Bird. And that was accomplished with the help of the latest updates both Lewis and IT had provided them. Therefore now they have 3 times much more time to try setup changes and preparation for the race. Could this be a good asset bearing in mind that FIA imposed less time in wind tunnel and CFD ?

[Pierce89]

Now I think it's related to 2014 to discuss about 3 things:
1. It`s fair to say that one of the Hamy`s brake issues was also down to his inability to cope with situations when he need to use the brake balance adjuster as we heard in some races over the radio by his race engineer ? Cuz in McLaren he didn`t have this system ... and I think RB didn`t have also, isn`t it?
2. He didn`t went to Bahrein test cuz he was busy in the sim (as someone said earlier when he visited the factory) not just to try to adapt more to the 2014 car but also to cope with a new issue : the 2014 regs regarding how operates the brake balance system ...
3. Now the team has all the 3 sims fully functional and that for each driver and also for Sam Bird. And that was accomplished with the help of the latest updates both Lewis and IT had provided them. Therefore now they have 3 times much more time to try setup changes and preparation for the race. Could this be a good asset bearing in mind that FIA imposed less time in wind tunnel and CFD ?

I can assure you Mclaren had a brake balance adjuster and next year teams can use computers to control brake balance so it shouldn't be an issue. TBH this makes no real sense.

Why would they need 3 simulators I can't imagine all 3 drivers are in the factory at the same time much less all need access to a simulator at the same time. Maybe Lewis and Nico own lesser simulators at home but I just can't see any need for three simulators each one assigned to driver X,Y, or Z. It's just throwing away money.

[Pierce89]

Responding to Ferrari pilot: You can't really seperate FRIC and "better aero" because FRIC is mostly for "better aero". I'd say that early in the season Merc and RB were close in peak DF but the Merc with a peakier aero map that needed a sophisticated FRIC to help keep it in the sweet spot. Opinions?

[OO7]

Responding to Ferrari pilot: You can't really seperate FRIC and "better aero" because FRIC is mostly for "better aero". I'd say that early in the season Merc and RB were close in peak DF but the Merc with a peakier aero map that needed a sophisticated FRIC to help keep it in the sweet spot. Opinions?

RBR had to restrain themselves, as the downforce levels they could potentially run was hampered by the tyres.

[Pierce89]

Responding to Ferrari pilot: You can't really seperate FRIC and "better aero" because FRIC is mostly for "better aero". I'd say that early in the season Merc and RB were close in peak DF but the Merc with a peakier aero map that needed a sophisticated FRIC to help keep it in the sweet spot. Opinions?

RBR had to restrain themselves, as the downforce levels they could potentially run was hampered by the tyres.

You think I've never heard that theory? I think it's safe to say Merc's performance was tire limited also. After all, they set the pole, burned the tires and became limited by the tire life. Sounds like the same problem for same reason to me.

You also leave the question why RBR didn't just reduce DF level and pound out the laps. You forget the RB9 wasn't in the same league as the Ferrari at China or Spain. If it was simply too much DF, they could've trimmed it out and equaled the Ferrari at the above mentioned tracks.

[henra]

RBR had to restrain themselves, as the downforce levels they could potentially run was hampered by the tyres.

That's probably a bit too simplistic.
Although I agree that the RB9 was probably strongly tyre limited at the beginning of the season. I doubt they could have cured the problems they had with the tyres by simply reducing DF, because otherwise they simply would have done so. RB have proven over the past couple of years that they are no idiots.
Since also peak performance of the RB9 was hindered I assume it also had something to do with the deformation of the tyre flanges negatively influencing the sealing vortex between tyre and diffuser.

Besides that direct aerodynamic problem I tend to believe they simply could not get the operating window and heat build charatecistics of the old tyre construction to consistently match the car behaviour over a lap.
The latter probably also applied to the W04 but in a somewhat different manner.
Mercs problems got better after the constructon change but did not completely disappear- in contrast to RB.