Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

[dren]

James Allen mentioned the inner turmoil at Mclaren between Ron Dennis and Whitmarsh. He said Ron Dennis is trying to run part of the team. It can only be bad for the team as a whole.

[flmkane]

James Allen mentioned the inner turmoil at Mclaren between Ron Dennis and Whitmarsh. He said Ron Dennis is trying to run part of the team. It can only be bad for the team as a whole.

I can understand perfectly well why he would want to do that. Forgiving 2009 for being a special year, every year afterwards Mclaren has been behind in design, regardless of whatever 'silver bullet' design they tried (Octopus exhaust, U-side pod, the MP4-28). The sole exception was 2012, when they lost the championship due to stupid errors that even Williams would not have made, which cost them the services of a pretty good driver that they had nurtured since childhood.

Ron is rightfully pissed off.

[dren]

Can't Ron just get rid of Whitmarsh, or are there some controlling shares at play?

[SiLo]

I really would like Ron to come back, he knew how to get things done.

[wunderkind]

Try to put things into perspective. McLaren's poor 2013 season was the direct consequence of the Team's decision to fight for the 2012 Championship until the very end and the subsequent delay in shifting the Team's focus and resources to the 2013 car.

Would McLaren's 2013 season be any different if Ron was still at the helm running the show? I doubt it. It was just a case of the 2013 car being not competitive. Ron's presence would have made no difference.

Personally, I don't think Ron could have stopped Paddy Lowe defecting to Mercedes given the position he was offered (also knowing Mercedes is on an upward trajectory). These chances only comes once or twice in one's career, and there was little possibility of Paddy running the McLaren F1 team in the next 5-10 years.

I think Martin Whitmarsh has done a great job pinching Peter Prodromou and his deputy from Red Bull and shows he still had what it takes to rebuild the team, and lead the team into the future.

[mclaren_mircea]

However at this time of year with only some frightening number of weeks to go to the end of this year all hands at the moment are focussed on working with Mercedes and the integration of that engine, and the development of our fuel and lube programme with Exxon Mobil, so that we’re able to put a high performance package on the deck, and a reliable one, for the start of next year.

Mercedes has promised not to treat McLaren as a second-class engine customer in 2014 as they enter the final year of their contract. "McLaren is a customer and we have long history with McLaren, so we will do everything to support them from Mercedes' point of view," he said. "We are in modern times so there is no such thing as different specs [of engine] and different specs are not allowed by the regulations anyway. The support of Mercedes is there [for McLaren] as it is for anybody else.

So please just stop that fears that Mercedes won't give McLaren the information that they need to build a successful F1 car next year.

Secondly, nothing is taking as granted, because if Whitmarsh said that Mercedes are favorites next year, Wolff said that an 2014 title is to early for Mercedes againts Red Bull.

Why is Whitmarsh playing this politics game? I can't imagine that he conceded defeat before the season even started? Is he managing the expectations and deliberately keeping a low profile?

We know from early of July that Mclaren shifted their focus on 2014, car months earlier than Mercedes and Ferrari. It must be an advantage... (see Mercedes switch early in 2012 their efforts for W04 car)

[Shakeman]

We know from early of July that Mclaren shifted their focus on 2014, car months earlier than Mercedes and Ferrari. It must be an advantage... (see Mercedes switch early in 2012 their efforts for W04 car)

According to a Merc test driver they've been testing their 2014 car in the simulator since 2012. I very much doubt McLaren started earlier than Merc on 2014, remember Merc said expect nothing this year.

You are right of course that there is nothing to fear regarding the Merc and McLaren contract to supply engines, it will be business as usual. Of course Merc cannot be happy that the data that McLaren acquire will probably be shared with Honda, Merc did secure Paddy Lowe on early release to offset that fact. McLaren will be no less well off than any other customer of Merc engines next year.

Whitmarsh is simply putting as much pressure on Merc as possible, the pressure will huge for Merc next year and a little more won't hurt as far as the competition are concerned. It's not just a microscope on Merc next year but an electron scanning one.

Ron coming back won't change a thing and the only thing he knows is how to pass on OCD to his underlings, he's had decades of underachievement that people readily forget. Whitmarsh has got Prodromou to jump ship which can only be a massive boost and maybe the McLaren front wing will acquire some more elements at last? Who's to say Prodromou would've come across if Ron had been in charge?

You can trace the exit of Hamilton, who would've dragged that sorry ass of a car into Q3 on many more occasions this year than BUT or PER, to Ron playing hardball and thinking he had no place else to go. Ham was shown something by Merc and it wasn't just money or the less OCD marketing requirements.

Ross Brawn left Merc because he didn't want to share power so why would he go to McLaren and share power there with Whitmarsh and the Ron? If it was the case it would be better to get Brawn in for 2014 not 2015 as at least his knowledge of the Merc 2014 engine would be current and useful.

[mclaren_mircea]

@Shakeman

Sam Bird said that he first tested in the simultor a 2014 specific car in the second half of the 2012. That doesn't mean that Mercedes W05 was a finite product, or that the car was already operational and ready for testing. Sam Bird said that he tested specifics or characteristic of the 2014 car in the simulator. And that it's nothing special. It's in the line with what Jonathan Neale said that the big teams started the work on the 2014 project at the end of 2011 (and you could include here Ferrari, Red Bull, Mclaren and Mercedes). And you have to be aware that in this interval of time (end of 2011 - end of 2013), Mercedes lost some 5-6 month of development in 2012. There were almost six months in which they upgraded the wind tunnel, improved the simulator with Daimler's support, improved the all the factory facilities, and in all this time the aero department were doing the transition between Loic Bigois departure (to Ferrari) and Mike Elliot arrival (from Lotus). Ross Brawn talked about this necesary steps back at the factory in the period april 2012- september 2012. Remember that Ferrari stopped their wind tunnel, for upgrading, thei moved with all their aero team to Toyota Wind Tunnel, and even some little support from Sauber wind tunnel. When Mercedes did that, it doesn't exist not a single word about Mercedes using another wind tunnel (Toyota, or other team wind tunnel) or facilities, at Mercedes was a general transition with all the hiring of aerodynamicsts and engineers (senior engineers).

[flmkane]

@Shakeman

Sam Bird said that he first tested in the simultor a 2014 specific car in the second half of the 2012. That doesn't mean that Mercedes W05 was a finite product, or that the car was already operational and ready for testing. Sam Bird said that he tested specifics or characteristic of the 2014 car in the simulator. And that it's nothing special. It's in the line with what Jonathan Neale said that the big teams started the work on the 2014 project at the end of 2011 (and you could include here Ferrari, Red Bull, Mclaren and Mercedes). And you have to be aware that in this interval of time (end of 2011 - end of 2013), Mercedes lost some 5-6 month of development in 2012. There were almost six months in which they upgraded the wind tunnel, improved the simulator with Daimler's support, improved the all the factory facilities, and in all this time the aero department were doing the transition between Loic Bigois departure (to Ferrari) and Mike Elliot arrival (from Lotus). Ross Brawn talked about this necesary steps back at the factory in the period april 2012- september 2012. Remember that Ferrari stopped their wind tunnel, for upgrading, thei moved with all their aero team to Toyota Wind Tunnel, and even some little support from Sauber wind tunnel. When Mercedes did that, it doesn't exist not a single word about Mercedes using another wind tunnel (Toyota, or other team wind tunnel) or facilities, at Mercedes was a general transition with all the hiring of aerodynamicsts and engineers (senior engineers).

Forgive me for usurping the mods, but I think that your post should be in the W05 speculation thread. Also, can you link a reference to Sam Bird's statement?

[adrianjordan]

Any whispers yet on who the new sponsor will be?

I heard Sony somewhere (can't remember if it was on here or not) being suggested and that would be fantastic in my opinion, but would presumably mean them severing ties with Kenwood...was this just a random suggestion or is there anything behind it?

When have they said they'll announce them now? Is it at the car launch?

[mclaren_mircea]

I read on a forum on autosoport a couple of months ago that an an insider of the team said that the new sponsor will be Gillette, and it will not be revelead until the car launch.
On other websites I read about Sony or Samsung, (Sony denied it, about Samsung there is only fan rumours) AND the british press is convinced that they will strengthen their ties with GlaxoSmithKline.
I think that the two favorites for beeing title sponsor are Gillette (it was rumoured even whan Perez was in Mclaren and all that noise with Telmex) and GlaxoSmithKline (which are is most creditable possibility for a long term partnership with Mclaren), and Samsung on a distant third place. So wait for Gillette or GlaxoSmithKline, it's 50% - 50%

[Thunder]

Last thing i heard was it will be revealed with the MP4/29.

On Autosport Samsung is the Rumor.

[mclaren_mircea]

I found another possibility, on this forum. It's about SAP, and it may be more than just a rumour, given the fact that the source comes from the inside of SAP.

http://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/commen ... onsorship/
McLarenAntares_ 3 points 1 month în urmă
"My university and more importantly, my facculty is working closely with SAP and talking with one of their employees (I'm trying to get work with them after finishing studies), who is also F1 fan, he said that there is a rumour within the company that they are going to move up as the head sponsor for next year . It's also backed up by the fact, that they've ramped up works on telemetry software for F1."

Looking at all the possibilities, only about Gillette and SAP came rumours from INSIDE of the company (from Mclaren's about Gilltte, and from SAP about SAP). I'm almost sure that next year title sponsor will not be from Asia (neither Samsung nor Sony). It's between Gillette, SAP and a distant third GSK. That means that next year there are great chanches of a blue Mp4-29

[SectorOne]

Try to put things into perspective. McLaren's poor 2013 season was the direct consequence of the Team's decision to fight for the 2012 Championship until the very end and the subsequent delay in shifting the Team's focus and resources to the 2013 car.

Actually it was their decision to not evolve the 27 but instead bring out an entirely new car even though they had a very good car in 2012.
So running until the very end in 2012 would have been beneficial but only if they had evolved the 27.

[marcush.]

SAP is a long time partner of mclaren and to me it is a mystery how SAP has kept out of formula 1 as a title sponsor yet -they have invested big time locally but in the form of a trust ..SAP founder Dietmar Hopp has invested around 240 (?) mill € yet in Icehockey ,Soccer club(Hoffenheim) ,Golf resort(StLeon-Rot).All this is really local and very close to Hoffenheim (the home of dietmar Hopp)or Walldorf where SAPs headquarters are situated...

SAP as a company has a turnover of 22Bill€ so it certainly is the sort of global player who can afford a Formula 1 title sponsorship.Certainly the environment does suit SAP for negotiating with important customers and keeping clients .