Lotus F1 Team 2013

[Jonnycraig]

In fairness, he is the same guy who said on Sky's F1 show that it's impossible to judge Vettel as he's only ever driven for 1 team.

[beelsebob]

In fairness, he is the same guy who said on Sky's F1 show that it's impossible to judge Vettel as he's only ever driven for 1 team.

Seems like a pretty fair statement...

[Pierce89]

In fairness, he is the same guy who said on Sky's F1 show that it's impossible to judge Vettel as he's only ever driven for 1 team.

Why is that funny? What yardstick can we measure vettel by? Webber? Beating Webber proves greatness? Sure we know Vettel is good but we have no valid comparison against a Hami or Alo.

[Pierce89]

i think maldonado will be better than grosjean.

On his day I'm sure he will. The problem with Maldonado is when it's not his day, he is practically guaranteed to run into something. Oh, and his day doesn't seem to come around quite often enough.

[Pierce89]

It's official : Romain Grosjean and Pastor Maldonado will drive for Lotus next year.
...

Does this mean that Kimi will be paid now?

I'd imagine Kimi has the same likelihood of of getting $15m for 2013 as I do.

[Jonnycraig]

In fairness, he is the same guy who said on Sky's F1 show that it's impossible to judge Vettel as he's only ever driven for 1 team.

Why is that funny?

Because Vettel has driven for 3 teams and won for 2 of them. Pretty elementary thing for an F1 journalist to know.

[SectorOne]

I´m pretty sure he´s well aware of that. However i think his scope of thinking goes a little bit further then yours.

[f1engineer]

unfortunately i think that the issues at lotus extend to a lot more than how to pay kimi

at the current exodus rate there will not be a car next year in time for testing, the starting pace will be severely compromised and nobody can expect a reasonable state of development over the season. people are leaving for red bull, ferrari, mclaren, williams, and toro rosso - other teams are really swooping in and taking away any of the valuable (and worried) lotus employees

[iotar__]

unfortunately i think that the issues at lotus extend to a lot more than how to pay kimi

at the current exodus rate there will not be a car next year in time for testing, the starting pace will be severely compromised and nobody can expect a reasonable state of development over the season. people are leaving for red bull, ferrari, mclaren, williams, and toro rosso - other teams are really swooping in and taking away any of the valuable (and worried) lotus employees

You should be careful, you're sidetracking from the real issues (favourite driver salary, Maldonado is better) to some minor team realities . What exactly are you saying? That if between now and first test they will lose more staff (is is the time for contract termination anyway?) or whatever else happens they might not it make in time? Are we talking about something more costly than missing late test in 2012?

Interesting case: they've been going bankrupt and had no chance for results every season since 2009. This time it might be different because of accumulation of financial problems, costs of rule change and other factors (ahem...). They've been losing personnel every year too and and somehow managed, maybe not to the extend of Allison-De Beer mid-season and at the same time but still. Previously the theme was they had no chance because championship winning people left (Symonds, Bell etc., although I remember compiling list of senior personnel from 05-06 that stayed), then some more (Densham, "aero guy that went to Mercedes", Tokunaga, probably many more) and yet they produced two of the best cars since 2006. Wasting it later is a different matter.

On the other side what about the advantage of continuation of 2013 order and design into 2014? It seems to only apply to Red Bull and Lotus is conveniently omitted from this logic, or is it just talk? Also some people have to be still there, the ones responsible for 2013 season development after Allison's departure, and all the tools (for the first time) and data.

They might be behind schedule, I read RG starts sim work at the end of December but unless something catastrophic happens (Genii planning to leave after not finding co-owner?) it's not IMO the biggest issue. Not being engine manufacturer is more important, it started with engine advantage itself and now after assumption that those differences will not be big it transformed into engine/chassis synergy (Brawn, Allison). Lotus can't have it to maximum extend so I'm not expecting miracles, although the same applies to McLaren.

[f1engineer]

i'd be surprised if lotus make it to jerez at the current rate

they're not just bleeding big names, they're bleeding everyone now. no contract enforcement allowed due to late payment of salaries. i can't count on my fingers/toes the number of people who have left (not including anyone who is a junior engineer)

the issue is that car build happens now over the last weeks of december and the first weeks of january. design offices, aero departments and production work flat out over this period, losing a number of people and not being able to pay those that you need to work every non-xmas day on time is going to have serious consequences

[bill shoe]

Lotus and around half the grid is at a tipping point. Current F1 is financially illogical. All teams from Lotus to Caterham spend more money than they take in. Logical value of those teams is therefore zero. Those teams go forward in the hope (gamble?) that something will change to put revenues back in line with expenses, therefore their franchises will have logical value again.

I'm skeptical that the cost-cap will do much near-term or medium-term good for midfield teams. The cost-cap will hit rich teams first (2015 or 2016) and then rachet down before eventually reducing costs to the midfield (logically 2017 or 2018?). So at best a few years before it reduces costs to Lotus, the midfield, and the backmarkers.

In the meantime all those teams carry valuations on paper of around $100 to $400 million dollars. Those teams can continue to borrow money and sell shares largely based on those lofty valuations. Here's the interesting point-- As long as they all keep their head up in the current money-losing environment then they can all pretend to be worth lots of money. However, if one team, especially an important one like Lotus, becomes insolvent before or during the 2014 season then all the money-losing teams (half the grid) would immediately go to zero value and likely not continue.

I mean, if you could buy Lotus out of bankruptcy for $1 then obviously no sane person would pay any money for Force India or Sauber or Caterham or Marussia.

The FIA wants to add an additional new team to this mess. Good luck.

[zack!]

they're not just bleeding big names, they're bleeding everyone now. no contract enforcement allowed due to late payment of salaries. i can't count on my fingers/toes the number of people who have left (not including anyone who is a junior engineer)

f1engineer, you mean you are an insider to count those people ?

[f1engineer]

they're not just bleeding big names, they're bleeding everyone now. no contract enforcement allowed due to late payment of salaries. i can't count on my fingers/toes the number of people who have left (not including anyone who is a junior engineer)

f1engineer, you mean you are an insider to count those people ?

yes but i have no proof and will not say which team

once you've been in f1 for a while you end up knowing people at most of the teams and despite it being a secretive sport you would not believe how much people talk

[zack!]

Yes, i can imagine there is some move between team, and people that are on track operations shall know everybody. I will not ask you your idendity, but as I am a fan of Enstone, I am interested in knowing what people like you think about financial situation of Lotus.

I heard PDSVA will only sponsor if the debt are over, meaning big investor shall enter right now. So the question of Quantum is crucial, but look like really "strange" deal from oustide.

More generally, I can't remember a year with so much team in financial trouble like this. I really think FOM should change the way to redistribute money, it is unstainable with the current rules, apart for 3 teams. What a pitty...

[zack!]

And sorry for my poor english, not my native language.