Formula One fatalities.

[Shrieker]

I've been thinking some more.

I'd revert Spa back to the old configuration. No armco, just power and telegraph poles lining the circuit.

That's the sort of thing that separates the men from the boys.

As a fellow member has pointed out, guys like Alonso Vettel or Hamilton are racers, they'd have no trouble racing their hearts out. It would put them under unnecessary risk though.

Remember these men were well into their motorsports careers (go-karts) in a time when F1 safety levels were no where near they are now. Still, they yearned to become F1 drivers. They all new about the Imola weekend early on in their careers but still marched on.

[henra]

I've been thinking some more.

I'd revert Spa back to the old configuration. No armco, just power and telegraph poles lining the circuit.

That's the sort of thing that separates the men from the boys.

I have long refrained from posting in this thread, but this one really takes the cake!
Sports is not about people getting killed. It's about people (and in some instances machines) performing to the max and better than the competitors.
That there were fatalities in the past was a simple and sad consequence of deficiencies (technical and organisational) back then. It never was an intended 'feature'. At best partly ignorance.

We can happily discuss about certain track layouts (I don't like these artificial 'Tilke- Dromes') and tarmac run-offs (of which I'm not a fan, either) but throwing away decades of lessons learned (with a high blood toll and sometimes in a horrendous way) would be stupid and against Human nature. You can't unlearn things.
The same applies to your proposal of re- exposing the drivers Heads
What an unnecessary step back which yields absolutely zero gain in return.

Edit: Following xpensive's comment I have taken out some phrases that might lead to escalation which is not my inention.

[xpensive]

As the opener of this thread, I have carefully tried to be xtra xtra cautious, with richard's kindest allowance in mind.

GB's opinions might seem a bit harsh, but there is a point there, though let's not see things go out of hand, gentlemen?

[autogyro]

I think it might be useful comparing F1 to modern extreme sports.
Red Bull supports a number of these sports, one that interests me is aircraft pylon racing.
All these extreme sports have increased in popularity in recent years but F1 seems at least to me, to be in decline.
If I am right it would be useful to find out the reasons why.

[timbo]

I think it might be useful comparing F1 to modern extreme sports.
Red Bull supports a number of these sports, one that interests me is aircraft pylon racing.
All these extreme sports have increased in popularity in recent years but F1 seems at least to me, to be in decline.
If I am right it would be useful to find out the reasons why.

Actually the simplest idea is that F1 is on limit of its growth potential and extreme sports are still growing from their niche. Pretty much as stock prices of startups vs long established company.

[xpensive]

Imagine those two, in the same team, like playing a game of poker with four aces in hand?



But it ended like this;



There are stories going about that Ronnie is alive and well, living in Brazil with Colin Chapman.

But I don't believe any of those.

[timbo]

Imagine those two, in the same team, like playing a game of poker with four aces in hand?

http://www.marioandretti.com/images/up_ ... terson.jpg

But it ended like this;

http://gforcef1.files.wordpress.com/201 ... tled20.jpg

There are stories going about that Ronnie is alive and well, living in Brazil with Colin Chapman.

But I don't believe any of those.

Can anyone comment on how likely it is to get fat embolism from a fracture like that? Multiple bone fractures were certainly not uncommon in F1 those days, but it seems only Ronnie was unfortunate to get embolism. Was he just unlucky?

[lebesset]

Imagine those two, in the same team, like playing a game of poker with four aces in hand?

http://www.marioandretti.com/images/up_ ... terson.jpg

But it ended like this;

http://gforcef1.files.wordpress.com/201 ... tled20.jpg

There are stories going about that Ronnie is alive and well, living in Brazil with Colin Chapman.

But I don't believe any of those.

Can anyone comment on how likely it is to get fat embolism from a fracture like that? Multiple bone fractures were certainly not uncommon in F1 those days, but it seems only Ronnie was unfortunate to get embolism. Was he just unlucky?

yes ronnie was very unlucky , especially in that designs of the day didn't protect him from that sort of injury

but there will always be an element of luck in vehicle accidents ...how else can you explain the ...no serious injuries .. here?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-25529589

[GitanesBlondes]

I've been thinking some more.

I'd revert Spa back to the old configuration. No armco, just power and telegraph poles lining the circuit.

That's the sort of thing that separates the men from the boys.

I have long refrained from posting in this thread, but this one really takes the cake!
Sports is not about people getting killed. It's about people (and in some instances machines) performing to the max and better than the competitors.
That there were fatalities in the past was a simple and sad consequence of deficiencies (technical and organisational) back then. It never was an intended 'feature'. At best partly ignorance.

We can happily discuss about certain track layouts (I don't like these artificial 'Tilke- Dromes') and tarmac run-offs (of which I'm not a fan, either) but throwing away decades of lessons learned (with a high blood toll and sometimes in a horrendous way) would be stupid and against Human nature. You can't unlearn things.
The same applies to your proposal of re- exposing the drivers Heads
What an unnecessary step back which yields absolutely zero gain in return.

Edit: Following xpensive's comment I have taken out some phrases that might lead to escalation which is not my inention.

Since you guys still haven't read some of what I said, I figured I might as well post something outrageous since it's clear I am going to be painted with the same broad brush regardless of what I say. But I will say this: at least I don't simply accept the same narrative that has been spun for years that everyone continues to preach as gospel. It's not gospel and never has been. It's shades of grey...you know, how the world really operates as opposed to your black and white fantasies.

[GitanesBlondes]

Imagine those two, in the same team, like playing a game of poker with four aces in hand?

http://www.marioandretti.com/images/up_ ... terson.jpg

But it ended like this;

http://gforcef1.files.wordpress.com/201 ... tled20.jpg

There are stories going about that Ronnie is alive and well, living in Brazil with Colin Chapman.

But I don't believe any of those.

Can anyone comment on how likely it is to get fat embolism from a fracture like that? Multiple bone fractures were certainly not uncommon in F1 those days, but it seems only Ronnie was unfortunate to get embolism. Was he just unlucky?

It had to do with the surgery. He should have been moved back to Sweden where the medical facilities were better than those in Italy.

[henra]

It's shades of grey...you know, how the world really operates as opposed to your black and white fantasies.

I know that things are not black and white. The difference lies in how far we are willing to go towards black or white.

My personal opinion is that death should not be a necessary ingredient for Motorsports in order to be interesting.
I don't consider this as a boys/mens thing. For me it is a Sport. To make a point: Do we need deaths in Soccer in order to be attractive? Obviously No. why should it be different with F1?
That said, I share your feeling that some (most?) of today's circuits are neutred beyond what's reasonable. Leaving track/making a mistake should have consequences (but not fatal/severe injuries).
On the other hand reducing car safety I don't support at all.

[lizardfolk]

http://i.imgur.com/oh4yJ4d.jpg

I don't understand a human surviving this. That's his helmet hitting the fence no? Amazing.

Honestly Indy has had worse that people have walked away from. Someone else posted in this thread that they dislike seeing NASCAR pileups on TV.

Oval racing is incredibly dangerous and will always be dangerous no matter what unless you slow down the cars.

Stan Fox:


Kenny Bräck:


Ryan Briscoe:


2001 Atlanta Pile up:


Over on the NASCAR side...

Mike Harmon:


Michael Waltrip:


Brad Keselowski (result of a revenge wreck btw):


Typical Daytona pile-up:


Hell it doesn't even have to be an oval series. Just anything to do with a banked very high speed turn can be disastrous. Some US Sports car series wrecks on rovals are really brutal.





None of these wrecks were fatal btw

But going back on topic with Formula 1...

Fritz Glatz died in 2002 while driving a vintage 1996 Arrows?



I've always found that a bit peculiar as Formula 1 was supposed to have a lot of safety upgrades due to the double fatalities of Ratzenberger and Senna? Seems weird that someone would die in a mid 90s F1 car in the early 2000s as safety was supposed to be fairly advanced in motorsports in general?

[Manoah2u]

that's not a '96 arrows

this is:




same car Verstappen crashed violently into a wall.

always concidered this a beautiful car, don't know exactly why.

58-year old Glatz raced under the pseudonym Frederico Careca and was leading the European historic Formula 1 championship race at Most in the Czech Republic but lost control after hitting a curb at high speed. The car rolled.

[lizardfolk]

My mistake thanks for the correction

[Manoah2u]

that's allright, news reports show a 2002 arrows [probably because of the crash happening in 2002].

there's little information to be found regarding the accident. he hit a curb and became airborne and crashed, but as exactly how is not really detailed except the rolling part. he didn't die on the spot either, he died from injuries later on. drivers can get unlucky in the safest of cars, just look at maria de villota's death. it's a off-track freak incident due to her hitting a truck'door', but it just shows the dangers.

let's face it, if for some reason a f1 car gets scooped up right onto the tub sideways, the floor of a f1 car can hit a driver in the head the same way maria was hit by that 'truck door'. it would be even worse, because the size of a f1 car could squash a drivers head in the helmet. there might still be some development left in drivers head protection [helmet].