Driver styles/preferences

[PlatinumZealot]

Interesting to see how kimi and alonso fares together.

They are the polar opposite of each other.

Alonso can manipulate the front to perfection while Kimi could play around with rear like he was born to do that.

Hence, Alonso prefer a stable rear end that balance any correction he made to the front. Kimi prefer sharp front end that allow him to correct the rear end (preferably a bit loose) accurately.

Next year with more torque from the power unit that contribute to less stable rear end, it could favors Kimi and jeopardize Alonso.

I don't think Alonso has shown he cannot handle oversteer. To the contrary.

In 2007, part of the reason to his struggle was the DNA of the car's predecessor was built around Kimi. Montoya faced the same issues when he switched to mclaren, his first comment after the first ride in the mclaren was " the car is too sensitive". Lewis was able to thrive in it because he had similar balance preference as Kimi.

So how would one explain Massa liking the ferrari better than Kimi in 2008 and 2009?? Why could Kimi not drive those cars as fast as Massa? Then to perplex things further, how can you explain how Alonso comes along, driving more confidently than Massa in Ferraris that were more unstable than theF2008 and the F50?

[Kansas]

Interesting to see how kimi and alonso fares together.


I don't think Alonso has shown he cannot handle oversteer. To the contrary.

In 2007, part of the reason to his struggle was the DNA of the car's predecessor was built around Kimi. Montoya faced the same issues when he switched to mclaren, his first comment after the first ride in the mclaren was " the car is too sensitive". Lewis was able to thrive in it because he had similar balance preference as Kimi.

So how would one explain Massa liking the ferrari better than Kimi in 2008 and 2009?? Why could Kimi not drive those cars as fast as Massa? Then to perplex things further, how can you explain how Alonso comes along, driving more confidently than Massa in Ferraris that were more unstable than theF2008 and the F50?

Watch onboard video, thats the best way to identify the car behavior really.

Since 2nd half of the season, the F2008 with new suspension development doesnt behave as pointy as the old suspension. I do not understand why it took them so long to bring back the old suspension part for Kimi, maybe thats why they apologized when the season ended.

And in 2009, Massa only got ahead in term of point scoring because kimi had too much realiabilities issues. Kimi was the one that scored ferrari their 1st point before the upgrades, first front row qualifying in Monaco, first podium in monaco. When his car was more reliable after massa got injured, he scored another 4 podiums and a win in a car that has been halted its development since germany. He only scored 1 point lesser than lewis in 2nd half of 2009 while beating others in much better cars.
I think Stefano answered your question really by claiming Massa has been suffering from the tire behavior, not sure what it is. he is good in 1 lap, but couldn't get the rhythm on sunday.

[mariano]

I think Kimi struggled much more in Ferrari (even the 07 championship winning car) where control Bridgestones didn't give him the front bite he enjoys.

[/quote]


In 2007, until USA GP, Kimi Raikkonen struggled with traction control and secondary steering input (anyone knows what´s that?). In 2005 and 2006, Montoya had understeer because he brakes almost in a straight line and turns in a very sharp line.

[mariano]

Alonso can manipulate the front to perfection while Kimi could play around with rear like he was born to do that.

Hence, Alonso prefer a stable rear end that balance any correction he made to the front. Kimi prefer sharp front end that allow him to correct the rear end (preferably a bit loose) accurately.

Next year with more torque from the power unit that contribute to less stable rear end, it could favors Kimi and jeopardize Alonso.

I don't think Alonso has shown he cannot handle oversteer. To the contrary.

In 2007, part of the reason to his struggle was the DNA of the car's predecessor was built around Kimi. Montoya faced the same issues when he switched to mclaren, his first comment after the first ride in the mclaren was " the car is too sensitive". Lewis was able to thrive in it because he had similar balance preference as Kimi.

So how would one explain Massa liking the ferrari better than Kimi in 2008 and 2009?? Why could Kimi not drive those cars as fast as Massa? Then to perplex things further, how can you explain how Alonso comes along, driving more confidently than Massa in Ferraris that were more unstable than theF2008 and the F60?

At the end of 2011, Mark Hughes said that Alonso liked oversteer, like Vettel and Hamilton, but, because the f150 was too understeery, he couldn´t do well in qualifying.

Massa had in 2010 his best year-start. The new Bridgestones and Pirellis had a very stiff tyre-wall that doesn´t allow to do trail-braking very well. That was why Massa had understeer, but, in fact, he likes understeer, as long as he can brake very deep into the apex of the corners.

Were the Renaults R23-R26 understeery or oversteery? What are the differences between Alonso´s style, Trulli´s and Fisichella´s? And Nelson Piquet Junior?

[mariano]

Does any telemetry exist on Vettel and Hamilton, similar to what we have found with Schumacher?

Can you put this telemetry, please?

[SectorOne]

Does any telemetry exist on Vettel and Hamilton, similar to what we have found with Schumacher?

Can you put this telemetry, please?

Sure,
http://world2talkabout.wordpress.com/20 ... -analysis/

There you have Schumi/Barrichello but the one i talked about was Schumi/Herbert around Silverstone.
(you can find the herbert video in that link)

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[beelsebob]

Does any telemetry exist on Vettel and Hamilton, similar to what we have found with Schumacher?

Can you put this telemetry, please?

Sure,
http://world2talkabout.wordpress.com/20 ... -analysis/

There you have Schumi/Barrichello but the one i talked about was Schumi/Herbert around Silverstone.
(you can find the herbert video in that link)

That graph I think is much more informative than the video actually. You can see every way that schumacher is maximising the car. Unsettling the car on the way in by using the throttle at the same time as the breaks to get the rear end out, controlling that slide, and then settling it all down in the last 5 meters when the car is pointed the right way. He then hits the power much harder, presumably finding the limit of grip much more easily.

[timbo]

Unsettling the car on the way in by using the throttle at the same time as the breaks to get the rear end out

Actually, I think he "settles" the car doing so. Applying some throttle sort of moves braking balance to the front and prevents rear lock up. I think it is possible that he used much more rear-ward braking balance than Rubens, which helped him in the high speed corners, but had to balance the car with throttle when doing heavy braking.

[beelsebob]

Unsettling the car on the way in by using the throttle at the same time as the breaks to get the rear end out

Actually, I think he "settles" the car doing so. Applying some throttle sort of moves braking balance to the front and prevents rear lock up. I think it is possible that he used much more rear-ward braking balance than Rubens, which helped him in the high speed corners, but had to balance the car with throttle when doing heavy braking.

Well, put simply, it has to be unsettling, because the car rotates faster. That's the definition of being unsettled.

[timbo]

Well, put simply, it has to be unsettling, because the car rotates faster. That's the definition of being unsettled.

But the braking into "Casino" is long and straight. I don't think there's much difference in rotation speed. He also goes off brake and throttle at the max rotation phase.

[Tim.Wright]

Well, put simply, it has to be unsettling, because the car rotates faster. That's the definition of being unsettled.

I don't agree with that at all. A faster car will rotate at a higher yawrate through a corner than a slower one but that doesn't at all mean that its unsettled. It just means that its driving on the same trajectory at a faster speed.

If you want to assess stability, at least look at the yawrate because it contains the sideslip velocity. That is an indicator of stability.

[SectorOne]

Rob Wilson summarizes the drivers,
http://www.autox.in/feature/report-card-formula-one/

Some interesting comments regarding driving styles, some known, some unknown, to me at least.

[Jonnycraig]

Rob Wilson summarizes the drivers,
http://www.autox.in/feature/report-card-formula-one/

Some interesting comments regarding driving styles, some known, some unknown, to me at least.

Interesting, but not surprising comments on Vergne. Presuming he can sort his head out after GB this year, with the more conservative tyres I'd have him down to surprise quite a few.

[SectorOne]

He needs to sort out his one lap pace. That´s really the only weakness i´ve seen from him.
It´s odd because the advantage Ricciardo had in Quali was virtually erased come Sunday.

[mariano]

Kimi Raikkonen, a man on a mission in Monaco

Monaco is a hard nut to crack. Just ask the drivers who have faced the challenge of racing on the streets of the Principality. You will have heard them say many times that the barriers are unforgiving, and this is the truth. The tiniest mistake is enough to hit the wall. Imagine how difficult it is for a driver who has not had the chance to drive there in the junior categories to have their first experience of Monaco in an F1 car.

Kimi arrived at Monaco in just that situation in 2001, unlike most other F1 drivers. His teammate, Nick Heidfeld, raced there in F3, F3000 and in F1 with the Prost GP team a year earlier. So he knew his way around. The bottom line is that Kimi had to get to know the track. And quickly.

There was only one way to find out. His Sauber race engineer, Jacky Eeckelaert, told this blog: “I did a few laps with Kimi on a scooter to show where to put the wheels and where not, but this was when the road was open to traffic, and there was a traffic jam everywhere, and by that it was not possible to have a clean look at the racing lines”.

But on Thursday, Raikkonen had to face Monaco circuit for the first time during the busy free practice sessions. He was informed by Jacky that the grip would be very low, and that he should have kept the car away from the barriers and take it easy.

“The laptime evolution due to the track improvement as the rubber is laid down is bigger than what you can achieve by any setup changes and driving”, Jacky explains.

So Raikkonen had to learn his way around the track, adjust tire pressure, brake blanking, engine blanking, ride high settings at top speed and the “usual stuff” teams did in that period. Things moved on since then and drivers are running more complicated programmes these days.

“I also told him, the day before on the scooter, that the tunnel corner was flat out (full throttle, no lift, no braking)”, remembers Eeckelaert.

After Kimi’s first run he returned to the pits and reported that “everything felt normal”. “Then he asked me if I was sure that the tunnel corner was flat. My answer was ‘yes’”, adds Jacky. Trying to keep an F1 car with 850bhp flat out in a tunnel that you saw first time is not easy. Watch on television and it looks simple. But stand trackside in the tunnel as the cars blast through the right-hander and you see just how much they move around on the bumps.

The engineers made a few adjustments on the tyre pressures and after having a quick look in the telemetry data, Kimi climbed on the car to have his second run. The people on the pitwall were surprised seen the Finn taking the tunnel corner flat out on the out lap.

“That’s what I call having confidence in your race engineer and even more in your own ability as a racing driver”, reflects Eeckelaert. But he couldn’t do more than that because he ran into brake calliper problems and the session was over for him since repair took a while.”

Qualifying time and Kimi managed to get P15, outqualifying Heidfeld by 0.180 secs. So he started his first ever race in Monaco ahead of his teammate, an impressive achievement. But the race did not go as planned.

After 25 laps Kimi reported an issue with the engine. It was misfiring, so he had to pit. The Finn climbed out of the car and along with his engineers they checked the data. A faulty wheelspeed sensor “thought” that there was lots of wheel spin and cut the engine power down. Remember, this was in the days when traction control was legal.

“I told Kimi that changing it takes a lot of time, but what I proposed was just to get back in the car. I disconnected the traction control system and then he could do another 40 laps till the end of the race, just gaining experience for next year”, adds Jacky. But Kimi was already 4 laps down.

“Obviously I warned Kimi that without traction control the risk of going off is huge, as the V10 ignition maps were not smoothed out as is done nowadays were Traction Control (TC) is not allowed anymore, and therefore without TC the engine is very aggressive. ‘OK’ he replied and went out”

He made no errors and he finished the race in last position. Drivers like H.H.Frentzen (Jordan), J.P.Montoya (Williams) and N.Heidfeld (Sauber) didn’t finish the race after suffering damage. But look at the fastest laps of the race and Kimi’s name appears on on the 6th spot with the fastest time on Lap 60 … without traction control!

Definitely a man on a mission!

Source: http://blogit.mtv3.fi/mrenigma/2013/08/ ... in-monaco/

Do you remember Kimi's 2007 problems?