2014 Design

[scuderiafan]

How is it that the FiA looked at the rules and didn't say "well damn, these look a bit phallic"?

[Thunder]

How is it that the FiA looked at the rules and didn't say "well damn, these look a bit phallic"?

I think they know now (of course too late as always) but it's too late for drastic changes to such a crucial Part of Aerodynamics. The Teams would protest the Hell out of it.

Well it's just another year with ugly Noses, nothing new ....

[astracrazy]

And how about the 2006 McLaren MP4-21 nose?

that nose would have been the idea, or similar. But with the rules the way they are written and the philosophy now used (higher the nose the better) this is why we are seeing these bs noses.

[Manoah2u]

they should widen the track [of the suspension] like the old days. much more stability. less need for superhigh noses, and mandate better track vision for the driver [free flow of visual angle from driver position to track]. if you look back at the era of senna, mansell, etc. then they could actually physically see the front wing of the car. given the head protection was inadequate back then, today it's a bit vise versa; driver protection is good, but vision is inadequate.
i'm sure they can still have enough driver protection and both improve vision.

if the driver is able to see the car's limits better, they'll push the car more to the limits without making costly errors.
with the wide wings of 2013, and physically unable to see it, it's very hard to judge exactly where the wing is relative to the car in front [or beside you]. an error is easier made, resulting in either unwanted contact - which can result in fw damage which will impact your race negatively, result in damage to the opponent's car [that would apply to yourself with the car behind you aswell], and thus the possibility of a drive through penalty [causing damage] because of a simple and nearly unavoidable driver error.
the only safe play is simply to maintain distance and 'hold back' a bit. and with that, you throw racing out of the window. that's not racing.

give the driver better visibility and normal wings and in return, you get racing back. and you don't need DRS anymore.

widen the cars and you will need less downforce for the cars to maintain drive and grip - thus less aerodynamical influence on the sport and less 'dirty air'.

allow freedom of engines, as in v6, 6-inline, v4, 4-inline, 5-inline, turbo or non-turbo, just mandate it should be 1.5l max. the rev limit is ok. just allow a max power of 1200 bhp for example. engine manufacturers then can go at free will at engine development, paired with ERS and hybrid benefits. they can figure out the rest for themselves.
then you get a platform for research again for road cars, will attract engine manufacturers, will create jobs, with possibily the same expenses as now [v6t costs more then the v8's of now], but with lots to gain from the expenses.

if they'd do that, toyota, audi & bmw would be knocking on the door immediately to enter the sport.

in the meantime, all we have left are disfigured cars that are a shim of their former glory ancestors.

though i think the 2008 f1 cars were awesome, i believe the 2009 era cars look great too - i just don't think the extremely wide front wings were good for the sport becuase of the extreme easy risk of unwanted contact.
the rules of past 2 years were rediculous bringing fugly as hell cars.
unfortunately, 2014 is even worse with what i've seen here.

there is potential for some cool and interesting noses. but because of bad leadership and bad ruling, we get fugly cars.

i wonder what the sport is going to do to bet better noses for 2015?

[Lycoming]

Sounds to me like, instead of doing that, they should just all go compete at le mans. I mean, they look cool, they're wider track, recently mandated higher driver seating position for better vision, they can see the front of their car, they probably leave a bit less wake turbulence with covered wheels and high aspect ratio wings, engine regs are relatively free, etc. I mean, the current LMP1 regulations are pretty much exactly what you just described. Hell, BMW, Toyota, Audi all compete there too!.

So, why not just watch WEC/USCR? The grandstand tickets are hella cheap compared to an F1 race.

[FW17]

Where are the air intakes for this car (DP01)

[aleks_ader]

From back underbody:



More on:
http://www.champcaruncensored.com/board ... 8f6a9801aa

EDIT 1: I change my mind i belive that is just exhaoust exit, blowing in underbody

Intake is on another side? inside sidepod

[neilbah]

i believe the turbo is mounted sideways and you can see the black compressor housing inside the gearbox caseing/mount(you can just make out the blades). Im assuming in this photo there are parts not fitted such as an airbox so indeed it looks as though air is taken in somewhere on the right sidepod, perhapse on the underside of the sidepod near the rear in the coke bottle section as it tapers in above the floor?

[Cuky]

Im assuming in this photo there are parts not fitted such as an airbox so indeed it looks as though air is taken in somewhere on the right sidepod, perhapse on the underside of the sidepod near the rear in the coke bottle section as it tapers in above the floor?

Champ Car cars didn't have an airbox. Here are pics of two cars used from 2004-2006 and 2007-2008
04-06



07-08

[neilbah]

ok when i say airbox i mean a box with an air filter in it, to stop debris entering the engine, i dont mean a inlet based in the rollover hoop, my description of where i was expecting the air to be drawn from should have made that apparent but alas..

[Manoah2u]

Sounds to me like, instead of doing that, they should just all go compete at le mans. I mean, they look cool, they're wider track, recently mandated higher driver seating position for better vision, they can see the front of their car, they probably leave a bit less wake turbulence with covered wheels and high aspect ratio wings, engine regs are relatively free, etc. I mean, the current LMP1 regulations are pretty much exactly what you just described. Hell, BMW, Toyota, Audi all compete there too!.

So, why not just watch WEC/USCR? The grandstand tickets are hella cheap compared to an F1 race.

that's a comparison that goes nowhere. with that attitude, you can do away with any point of comment or critisism on anything in F1 by sending them to another sport like GP2, INDY, Nascar, Lemans, whatever.
if you don't like the tires, go check out indycar, it doesnt happen there.
if you don't like the engines, go check out indycar, there are rumbling v8's there.
if you think f1 tv coverage is bad, go check out nascar.

my point was about how today's f1 concept has a flaw that encourages drivers to take the foot off the throttle and on the brake, instead of encourage them to take a risk and floor the pedal to the metal [carbon].

maybe you didn't fully grasp what i was aiming at:








vs









vs



i'm convinced the aerodynamic aspect of f1 today is far too important, and it's gotten to a point where it seriously hurts
the sport. it's no longer real a 'battle' on the track the way it should. Apart from the rediculous punishments because of rediculous rules - the simple truth is overtakes and moves that worked in the older days don't work because of the design of the cars [the driver can't judge their car perfectly and can't judge distance perfectly because of the restricted view].
simple as that. that's why the overtakes compared to the 'older days' are so rare and have the need for these artificial 'gimmicks'.

the heart and soul is engineered out aerodynamically by flawed rulemaking and inconsequent desicions of the governing bodies.

[shelly]

This picture from omnicorse



suggests that there could be a possible solution for the transition from the nose to the chassis that makes the lower surface of the nose act like a diffuser On the radius connecting chassis and nose a strong suction peak could develop, with a good interaction with front turning vanes in a way similar to what we saw in 2013 on all cars (also with pelican noses).
The diffuser could be integrated by a s-duct to drive it.

The corresponding nose design woud be a low version of current noses, with wide pillars. The section between the pillars would behave like a venturi with skirts, interacting with the central fw section and the front turning vanes under the chassis 8which would act liek fences of a diffuser

[Holm86]

This picture from omnicorse

http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/ev ... tere__.jpg

suggests that there could be a possible solution for the transition from the nose to the chassis that makes the lower surface of the nose act like a diffuser On the radius connecting chassis and nose a strong suction peak could develop, with a good interaction with front turning vanes in a way similar to what we saw in 2013 on all cars (also with pelican noses).
The diffuser could be integrated by a s-duct to drive it.

The corresponding nose design woud be a low version of current noses, with wide pillars. The section between the pillars would behave like a venturi with skirts, interacting with the central fw section and the front turning vanes under the chassis 8which would act liek fences of a diffuser

I already suggested this in the Force India thread. Scarbs thinks there will be more of an advantage in taking in the air from underneath the nose and directing it up over the nose.

[wuzak]

This picture from omnicorse

http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/ev ... tere__.jpg

suggests that there could be a possible solution for the transition from the nose to the chassis that makes the lower surface of the nose act like a diffuser On the radius connecting chassis and nose a strong suction peak could develop, with a good interaction with front turning vanes in a way similar to what we saw in 2013 on all cars (also with pelican noses).
The diffuser could be integrated by a s-duct to drive it.

The corresponding nose design woud be a low version of current noses, with wide pillars. The section between the pillars would behave like a venturi with skirts, interacting with the central fw section and the front turning vanes under the chassis 8which would act liek fences of a diffuser

I already suggested this in the Force India thread. Scarbs thinks there will be more of an advantage in taking in the air from underneath the nose and directing it up over the nose.

Like this?

[stephenwh]

i'm convinced the aerodynamic aspect of f1 today is far too important, and it's gotten to a point where it seriously hurts
the sport. it's no longer real a 'battle' on the track the way it should. Apart from the rediculous punishments because of rediculous rules - the simple truth is overtakes and moves that worked in the older days don't work because of the design of the cars [the driver can't judge their car perfectly and can't judge distance perfectly because of the restricted view].
simple as that. that's why the overtakes compared to the 'older days' are so rare and have the need for these artificial 'gimmicks'.

the heart and soul is engineered out aerodynamically by flawed rulemaking and inconsequent desicions of the governing bodies.

The teams invented DRS and it is the teams who refuse to lose downforce. Just sayin.