Lotus E22 Renault

[Neno]

Only Boullier said ''we want to hide our secrets''... but Boulliers says alot of BS...

Given the haemorrhage of Lotus staff to other teams since the end of last season, do you think any F1 team didn't know of the Lotus nose design by now?

You can't bring ideas from your old team to your next team, it's violation of privacy. I am sure former employess have contract or clausule where Lotus property is insured and protected when they change employer. F1 would be a mess if every few months people would go from one team to another like spies just to steal secrets of another teams.

[AnthonyG]

Only Boullier said ''we want to hide our secrets''... but Boulliers says alot of BS...

Given the haemorrhage of Lotus staff to other teams since the end of last season, do you think any F1 team didn't know of the Lotus nose design by now?

You can't bring ideas from your old team to your next team, it's violation of privacy. I am sure former employess have contract or clausule where Lotus property is insured and protected when they change employer. F1 would be a mess if every few months people would go from one team to another like spies just to steal secrets of another teams.

That's exactly what happens. Even if it isn't "allowed" it'll hapen.

I also think it's not a big problem contract-wise in this case because personell has not been paid(on time) if we believe the rumours. I'm no expert in law, but if one party neglects it's side of the deal, the other side isn't obliged to fullfill the terms set by the contract. (Generaly speaking)

[BorisTheBlade]

That's exactly how the game works. There are no patented solutions in F1 and as long as you wait till your gardening leave runs out you are free to share knowledge with your new employer - hell, that's what they pay you for.

[threep]

Only Boullier said ''we want to hide our secrets''... but Boulliers says alot of BS...

Given the haemorrhage of Lotus staff to other teams since the end of last season, do you think any F1 team didn't know of the Lotus nose design by now?

You can't bring ideas from your old team to your next team, it's violation of privacy. I am sure former employess have contract or clausule where Lotus property is insured and protected when they change employer. F1 would be a mess if every few months people would go from one team to another like spies just to steal secrets of another teams.

There's a difference between taking specific design information with you (drawings, data) which is strictly forbidden, and taking knowledge such as we tried solution X and it did/didn't work. The former would be forbidden in all circumstances, the data and drawings belong to the team.

Engineers can't unlearn knowledge, when a team employs an engineer from another team it's partly to buy the knowledge about what that other team has been doing. Employment contracts have a period of gardening leave built in to try and lessen that knowledge transfer to other teams, so what they learn is already 6 to 12 months out of date.

[Rhodium]

ha ha ha...

i lost a rate on my profile, just because i talk about reality or not about the picture of E22.

wait and see.
but if i'm right, i hope guy who make a bad rate on my profile make the same in positive one.

i will never talk about this picture, i promise

[Del Boy]

Thankyou. So another team probably wont be able to get one to Jerez. But the will be able to take something for Bahrain, and try it out at the same time as Lotus. All while Lotus will maybe only be doing a shakedown for a few days in Bahrain. So surely this is not what Lotus are launching with. Its just a fake to get others thinking and wasting time exploring the same idea.

It's an interesting idea about getting other teams to waste time, the Williams walrus showed great promise in the wind tunnel but that didn't translate on the track. Although as is said so often here there are some very clever people with powerful CFD machines that could probably dismiss this in an hour?

[zack!]

I am with you, on "photoshop" tricks on E22. For me the nose cones are "zoomed", then "pasted" on "upside view image".

For me, cones, actually, are thinner, shorter and more spaced (they even perhaps diverge a little bit going frontward).

And as you, i find the "curved bridge" between the 2 cones too strange to be true. Would'nt be surpised if jonction was higher and not curved (plain straight line).

As Kimi says, wait and see...

[Blackout]

I am with you, on "photoshop" tricks on E22.

Me too. But I dont agree with most of Rhodiums arguments.

[Leon]

E21 and E22 comparison

wheel-to-whell animated gif with transition effect
http://i42.tinypic.com/103hqoj.jpg

E21 vs E22

[Blackout]

Each red square side here = 6 pixels --> 6 pixels represent 51mm
each finger has a width of 2 quares and a half --> 15 pixel --> 127,5mm
If the finger's section, 50mm behind its tip is 9000mm2, the fingers section length should be 70,58mm... that's within the rules
But the fingers stll look photoshopped to me too

[zack!]

Each red square side here = 6 pixels --> 6 pixels represent 51mm
each finger has a width of 2 quares and a half --> 15 pixel --> 127,5mm
If the finger's section, 50mm behind its tip is 9000mm2, the fingers section length should be 70,58mm... that's within the rules
But the fingers stll look photoshopped to me too

http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.ph ... u=14795526

Good idea.

127.5 (width)*70,58(high)=9000mm2 ok, assuming (safe bet) they minimize the surface (and inherent drag).

So the section is more horizontally shaped than vertically shaped.

Do you think, from 3/4 front view, that the section is like this ?

In my opinion, not. If you zoom the cones from the upside, then they appear more wider than they actual are, and so you can reconciliate with a more vertically shaped cones. But we need to be sure that square size is accurate...

PS : How do you estimate the red square real size ? What is your "known" reference ? Do you rely on width of front wing or something else ?

[zack!]

other idea to estimate size of red square.

Do you think they also want to minimize the lenght delta of the cones ? I bet the difference is 50mm...
Seems weird to exagerate asymetry if hey are not forced...

But perhaps this is the way you made the estimate ?

[BorisTheBlade]

Of course that's how he did it. And it's the best guess, I think.

[Blackout]

I only took the delta between the fingers/horns Zack (that's the 6 pixel red square) But I should have done like you said and take the front wing as a reference too : P
I did that now and I found out one horn should be 8,6 pixels longer than the other (not 6 pixels) and that the horns section rectangle should be like 102x88 (horizontal rectangle)
But the 3/4 view suggests the horn's section is a vertical rectangle
So yes I think they did photoshop it... but why ?
Maybe the front wing's lenght isnt accurate anyways : P
Maybe nothing in that render is accurate.

[zack!]

So yes I think they did photoshop it... but why ?

I don't know, my first idea was that they want to be emphatic/ shocking on DDN to do the buzz. And take the media coverage from MCL (reason being the sony sponsoring battle). Another funnny (and werid) idea to do hte buzz is to make the female pairing with MCL nose perfect in size, knowing people will tweet on that too, with great picture

The second idea then was to hide the real aero property of the DDN, I say that because, I see already a french site explaining it is not the real nose because aero turbulence iss too big in the gap with such large horns. If the up view is zoomed, that means that in reality, the asymetry is a tiny one, and the inside gap is really a wider one, so obviously a completly different thing.To complement that, there is a reflect/shadow on the inside of the horn, that may be used to find out how the upper jonction between the horn is.

But I generally have strange idea, so unlikeky to be the good explanation