I read in the regulations that the energy store (or more precisely: the part that stores enrgy within the battery) is NOT counted within the 145kg... and that only the part that stores energy must be between 20-25kg... so the battery overall can weight 26, 27 etc kilos...
The weight limit includes clamping plates and electrical connections between cells.
5.4.3 The total weight of the part of the ES that stores energy, i.e. the cells (including any clamping plates) and electrical connections between cells, must be no less than 20kg and must not exceed 25kg.
I read in the regulations that the energy store (or more precisely: the part that stores enrgy within the battery) is NOT counted within the 145kg... and that only the part that stores energy must be between 20-25kg... so the battery overall can weight 26, 27 etc kilos...
No vanadium flow batteries basically.
Why not?
The regulation stipulate a maximum storage, not that it must have that amount of storage.
ellemen wrote:
I really want to know what the "arrow" is in between all the turbo spinny stuff and the battery. Sorry, but I'm not looking for "the MGU-H does it".
LMN
The MGU-H is essentially an electric generator/motor driven mechanically by the turbo. It can harvest exhaust energy which otherwise would be wasted. It can charge the ES, or can power the MGU-K directly. It can't drive the engine directly because mechanically it's only connected to the turbo.
If they use it in motor mode, it can spool up the turbo if it's needed - using some energy from the ES.
Hopefully a simple question (that hasn't yet been answered).
"What is the (Physics) mechanism which transforms heat energy into electrical energy?" (No thermocouples, please).
I really want to know what the "arrow" is in between all the turbo spinny stuff and the battery. Sorry, but I'm not looking for "the MGU-H does it".
Ta.
LMN
Think of the MGU-H serving the same function as a wastegate on the exhaust side and a blow off valve on the intake side. Except that instead of venting excess gasses to the atmosphere, the excess gasses are used to spin the MGU-H, much like an alternator spins and generates electricity. This electricity is either fed to the energy store, where it can be used to boost the engine power, or can be used directly on the turbo itself. Thus the battery gives the engine extra power and also eliminates turbo lag. This energy is harvested both during turbo deceleration, and to maintain a constant boost pressure by causing drag on the turbine shaft during full throttle acceleration.
nacho wrote:How do they control how much energy they recover with MGU-H? Simple clutch sounds too crude.
There are some fundamental things to understand about the turbo and the MGU-H.
1. The exhaust turbine of the turbo is oversized compared to conventional turbos. This is done in order to artificially create a torque capacity beyond what the compressor needs and exploit the total potential of the exhaust gases to do useful work. So conceptionally there is no need for a wastegate to vent the excess capacity.
2. Instead of blowing exhaust gasses off via a waste gate the MGU-H is used to harvest the excess torque and energy. The control for the process of harvesting torque for the MGU-H is done by the inductive coils of the motor generator unit. When the rpm of the ICE reaches a certain treshold the MGU-H controller knows that he has to pick up torque. The motor generator function is controlled by the power electronics package of the MGU-H inverter. The inverter is told by an energy management controller how to run the MGU at any given time.
3. The magnetic forces in the MGU-H coils and magnets are generated or absorbed according to the needs that are signaled to the MGU-H inverter. When torque is needed to spool up the compressor to prevent lag the MGU-H coils act like a motor. When the MGU-H needs to absorbe torque it acts like a generator.
Naturally it is a lot more difficult and and complicated than our 3 points can show. But in a nutshell that is how it works. You need complicated loops to run all these control programs and those manfacturers and teams that did not pay enough attention to this work ahead of the season are suffering now.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
nacho wrote:Thank you WhiteBlue. So these are ac motor/generators with very sophisticated electronics. Are these gear coupled to not spin 125k?
There appears to be some debate on turbine speed. The rules allow 125,000 some people are saying 100,000. Some people are saying geared, some direct. I think there's a lot of highly educated guesses out there.
Does anybody know the voltage being used. I was at data centre world last week and whilst Yuasa admit to supplying McLaren LiPo batteries they wouldn't confirm number of cells or voltage.
5.2.4 The MGU-H must be solely mechanically linked to the exhaust turbine of a pressure charging system. This mechanical link must be of fixed speed ratio to the exhaust turbine and may be clutched.
The rotational speed of the MGU-H may not exceed 125,000rpm.
For ES:
5.12.5 The maximum peak voltage on the car must never exceed 1000V.
I would like to discuss the relevance of the word 'thermal' in TERS.
Now, I remember vaguely from my thermodynamics classes at university, that the definition of 'heat' is a bit more broad compared to the typical understanding of the word, but let's explore that.
The first time I'd heard about TERS in F1, I thought, "How can they possibly package a steam generator under that engine cover?" Not really, but I was very confused as to how heat would be recovered.
Moving on to the actual system as it is now. As I understand it, the TERS system is set up such that the shaft of the turbo charger is connected to a motor/generator, and this generator is used to control the RPM of the turbo (and therefore boost pressure), in lieu of a waste-gate, by varying load on the generator.
The TERS system acts as a heat engine, producing electrical energy to charge the batteries.
My issue with this is that: unlike a waste-gate, the TERS system introduces a restriction in the exhaust, I imagine this would sap some power from the engine, like when changing from a free-flowing to a very restrictive exhaust system on your car (but multiplied many fold).
Now, if my head is getting this right, by putting this restriction in, you are not limiting the mass flow rate, as you will still be getting the same mass flow out the exhaust tip, as you would with a ordinary wastegate, for the same energy delta of combustion. (I am trying to avoid using "engine power output" here)
What you will be doing is increasing pressure in the exhaust manifold, and therefore increasing resistance on the pistons, and sapping power. Is this correct?
The difference between this heat engine and that of a steam generator is that a steam generator's working fluid is used exclusively to turn the turbine generator, where as in the KERS system it is used to move the pistons as well as the turbine generator. And it seems like you would have to sap power from one to increase power to the other.
If so, do we have any figures of what kind of electrical power output there is from the TERS system? And then what proportion of that is due to 'heat recovery' and what proportion of this is just power sapped from the motor.
Alternatively, I would be interested to know what is the difference in total energy content of the exhaust gases, with and without TERS, and then what is the total energy harvested by the TERS system.
Could you also, in theory, employ this TERS system on a naturally aspirated motor, and just put a turbine in the exhaust system, connected only to a generator, and not to a compressor?
The turbine should be matched to the point at which the maximum recovery is taken (that is, compressor power + MGUH power), which should minimise any back pressure increases.
