Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

Post here information about your own engineering projects, including but not limited to building your own car or designing a virtual car through CAD.
astracrazy
astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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no i don't think so because it will cost to run it, and i'd prefer not to lose a weekend/week to a pre-season thing when we are busy with other KVRC things atm. (i'm not complaining). Obviously this is why i'm offering to check peoples cars in the mean time so no time is lost for the first race

i would run your tunnel to the best you can (mesh size) and use it as a guide. Because i don't think you can get swak4foam for free on windows? (or you couldn't). You need that for rotating wheels so it will be hard to match what is being run for the competition anyway even using the same mesh sizes

Julien is hopefully going to announce the mesh and cost this week. Cost a lot lower than first thought actually.

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CAEdevice
49
Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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ok, no problem.

With my CFD solver I can simulate rotating wheels (the same for the relative speed of the ground) but I don't have the right parameter to set the roughness of that surfaces.

The cost is not a problem, I think that the staff is doing a great (and heavy) work, so I can't assume that there are no costs.

julien.decharentenay
julien.decharentenay
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Joined: 02 Jun 2012, 12:31

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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Hi,

I am back with some final numbers on the CFD mesh and some pictures as well.

The mesh size depends on whether the surface is the front or rear wings or the remaining of the car. At the front & rear wing, the mesh size is approximately 4mm with 2 prism layers of ~1.2mm. The remaining of the car has a mesh size of ~8mm with 2 prism layers of ~2.4mm. The mesh size is set to be constant in the area (i.e no variation between 2 different mesh sizes). Overall the cell count is expected to increase from approximately 900,000 cells last year to around 2,600,000 cells. As shown on the picture, there may still be issues with separate wing elements getting merged.

See images of the front and rear wings mesh:

Image

Image


The domain uses a coarser mesh away from the car, with a refinement box extended downwards 1 car length. See screenshots:

Image

Image

Image

A few more details, the modelling is using the full car, not the half car. I tried using the half car approach and found that the intersection of the symmetry plane with the car body could result in bad cells and therefore reverted back to the full car approach.

Cost wise: I spent a lot of time trying to improve on turn-around time and therefore cost and managed to keep it down. So Luke and I have reduced participation cost to AU$20 for the challenge (5 races).

Portal: As Luke mentioned, I spent some time working on a submission portal (in the same spirit as Aerodynamic on Demand). It can be used to generate the openFoam setup as per the challenge setup, which you can download and use to run the openFoam CFD simulation locally. Even if you are not planning to run the full CFD model in openFoam, use it to make sure that the mesh is not closing off front or rear wing elements.

At this stage, there is no documentation on how to use it (particularly how to prepare the geometry for it). I will be setting up a video-conference using Google Hangout on Air to discuss how it works and you can ask me for input on making it work for you. I am proposing this coming Saturday http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/f ... p1=47&ah=1. Don't worry if the time is not suitable as a video recording will be available on YouTube afterwards - just that if no-one is coming, I won't have much to discuss... Bare in mind that this is still relatively recent and that there will be some teething issues.

The portal address is: https://cfdcloudengine.appspot.com/, select Start Calculator under Vehicle Aerodynamic Study. The velocity is 44.7m/s and the yaw angle is 0 degree. Once submitted, you should receive an email with a link to the openFoam case setup.

Geometry: upload it in STL format (or an archive of multiple STL files) that is exported in meters...

astracrazy
astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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For reference, those who choose the pay per race option will be paying AU$5 per race

Roughly £10.62 for upfront or £2.65 per race

How it will work:
You will have to re-register on a new form which will be released shortly
Fill in all team details and pick your choice of team number and team colour (you have three choices for each). The shade of the colour chosen is your choice.
Then you need to select your payment schedule (upfront/per race)

We will confirm with you your team number and colour. We will use pay pal to invoice you for the payment. Upfront must be paid by 3days before the submission date of the first race. Per race will be invoiced 2 weeks before the submission date and again, must be paid by 3 days before

You are encouraged to have you own team page (you can link to this) be it twitter, facebook or a blog etc etc

We would like to ask you to e-mail us a render of your car for us to use on our website. Please use your confirmed team colour to colour you car (obviously carbon bits can be black etc) and have the KVRC and Khamsin logo in the picture. Also, please have your team number in the picture/on the car. If you can't do it or haven't got time don't worry, we will use your race 1 submission car to make a render.

Finally:
As this is a non-profit challenge, the 'left over' will be re-distributed to 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the championship after 5 races in the following way 1st: 50%, 2nd 30% and 3rd 20%. You can appreciate we don't know how much this will be at this stage
Last edited by astracrazy on 29 Jan 2014, 11:14, edited 1 time in total.

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CAEdevice
49
Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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Hello Julien, I have two questions about the CFD:

1) Can you extimate the minimum gap between the wing elements to avoid the merging iusse?
2) The openFoam case setup can be run through Kashmin plugin or a linux installation is required?

Thank you!

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CAEdevice
49
Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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About payments: I don't have a Paypal account, would it be possible to pay by SEPA or credit card or Bitcoin?

astracrazy
astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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about payment: I don't think so, sorry

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RicME85
52
Joined: 09 Feb 2012, 13:11
Location: Derby

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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Awesome news on the cost guys =D>
Makes things a lot easier for me to sort out entry fee.

+1 for an estimate on the minimum slot gap to avoid mesh issues.

astracrazy
astracrazy
31
Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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slot gap:
Just looked back through my notes. 10mm should be fine.

julien.decharentenay
julien.decharentenay
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Joined: 02 Jun 2012, 12:31

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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@CAEdevice PayPal supports payment by credit card without the requirement for a PayPal account. So it should not be an issue.

The openFoam case setup is independent from the Khamsin plugin for SketchUp. You need an openFoam installation to run it, preferably with the swak4Foam extension installed. My advice would be to use a Linux platform as you can then download the openFoam binaries from the openFoam distribution - you still have to install swak4Foam manually (ie through a compilation). On Windows, you can use blueCFD-SingleCore (which does not support parallel analysis or swak4Foam unfortunately).

@CAEdevice and @RicME85 The minimum slot gap stated by Luke is an estimate. In my opinion 10mm should be fine. But I have not done any thorough testing - but I can say that on Luke's car from last year, the gap at the front wing was blocked off during the meshing process.

I am currently very limited in local computational power - my main computer is out of action and I have had to dust-off an old Pentium 4 with 1GB... You can use the portal mentioned to get an openFoam setup for your design and test it - otherwise I would be happy to try to test front wing designs only if these can be sent as STL via email (I may be able to mesh it on my limited resources).

Let me know if interested in having a video-conference to understand how to use the portal and subsequent case setup generated.

CFD setup: My previous email was focused on the mesh generation. For disclosure sake, I also wanted to let you know that the simulations will be run using a first-order spatial discretisation scheme (some may know the approach as upwind). This is not ideal and I would prefer running second-order, but this will not be possible. If this was changed I would inform you.

The reason behind using first-order vs second-order is as follows. When using second-order, the drag and downforce results shows small time variations/oscillations, which are associated with unsteady(transient) effects such as vortex shading. These oscillations make it challenging to assess convergence in a repeatable manner while the simulation is running. When using first-order scheme, the numerical dissipation smooths out these oscillations and makes it easier to assess when the solution is converged. This allows for the simulation to be stopped as soon as the results are converged, saving on computational time and cost.

julien.decharentenay
julien.decharentenay
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Joined: 02 Jun 2012, 12:31

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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For renderings, can you include the Competition Car Engineering logos alongside the KVRC and Hibou Scientific Software logos? There is no Khamsin logo...

cdsavage
cdsavage
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Joined: 25 Apr 2010, 13:28

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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The portal submission idea sounds great. Would it be possible to supply a skp file with the same mesh/CFD settings already set and ready to go, or will the output of the portal be something that can't be generated using khamsin and sketchup?

astracrazy
astracrazy
31
Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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I'm not sure if i'm answering your question or not. But i'll try

theres nothing in a skp file you need to set up. The mesh is pre-set and you input the m/s and yaw within the portal, you let it work for a while then you select the openfoam solution. In about 2 hours you then get sent the file which needs to be run with openfoam

It can't be used with khamsin or sketchup

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CAEdevice
49
Joined: 09 Jan 2014, 15:33
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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Thank you Julien and Luke for your answer.
I did not know that Paypal accept credit card, as soon as it will be possibile I'll pay for the entire season.

Logos: it would be very useful to have the logos we have to include in the "welcome pack" (jpg would work, but a vectorial format would be perfect).

Web conference (Google hangout? Skype): sure I would be interested

OpenFOAM: at the moment I haven't a linux installation but maybe I could install a linux OS with a double boot on my studio workstation (64Gb RAM, Intel i7, double SSD Raid 0, but I haven't a Tesla GPU). I'm not sure it will be ready for the first race, but then if it could bu useful I can make it available for running some test.

astracrazy
astracrazy
31
Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2014

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Logo's - good idea. I'll do that this weekend.

Conference: Might be a good idea to e-mail Julien direct to organise this julien@khamsinvirtualracecarchallenge.com