McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

[rscsr]

If I've correctly understood the limits on the suspension arms geometry are no more than 3.5/1 length/height ratio and no more than 100mm height. If it is so, could the other teams only reshape their geometry arms so that to be longer and reach the limit of the diffuser? 350 mm of maximum length is not sufficient to reach such a goal with their actual rear suspension geometry?

The axis from the two pickup points have to be enclosed in the section at every position

[Pup]

I personally believe the air blocked by the "mushroom suspension" will be just leaked out. It's high pressure, turbulent and slow moving air. You don't want that underneath your rear wing. I think they'll instead be using the fast flowing air the comes around the roll hoop to feed the underside of the rear wing.

I don't mean the 'trapped' air but rather the air that's coming around the side pods. That air should be directed up under the rear wing, moving quickly, and will aided by the exhaust. The air from the engine cooling outlet is introduced at this point also, so that's why I think that the airflow between the dam and the wing is very important to how this works.

Unless that air ends up going around the wheels instead.

[fausto cedros]

As for the drag increase due to the "mushroom" arms:
as long as this means an increase in downforce from the diffuser, this is usually beneficial for the overall efficiency of the car. More, they maybe can have the same amount of overall downforce by using less wings this way, and still find it beneficial. Overall efficiency will be crucial since it will be really a fuel consumption formula this year. Just my two cents.

[Avocado]

If it works as well as the beam wing did last year then the McLaren might have a second or more in hand at the start of the season.

From your mouth to God's ears!

[Just_a_fan]

If I've correctly understood the limits on the suspension arms geometry are no more than 3.5/1 length/height ratio and no more than 100mm height. If it is so, could the other teams only reshape their geometry arms so that to be longer and reach the limit of the diffuser? 350 mm of maximum length is not sufficient to reach such a goal with their actual rear suspension geometry?

I think the 100mm is the maximum dimension allowed in either direction. You can have a maximum 100mm x 100mm (1:1) if you like but you can't have 350mm x 100mm (exceeds the 100mm maximum dimension) nor can you have 100mm x 20mm (exceeds the 3.5:1 ratio).

[hecti]

I don't think they will race with them... I think we need to calm down and relax and think that maybe its a device to help them sandbag at the tests, and distract other teams and engineers. It seems to be working on many of you

[turbof1]

I personally believe the air blocked by the "mushroom suspension" will be just leaked out. It's high pressure, turbulent and slow moving air. You don't want that underneath your rear wing. I think they'll instead be using the fast flowing air the comes around the roll hoop to feed the underside of the rear wing.

I don't mean the 'trapped' air but rather the air that's coming around the side pods. That air will be directed up under the rear wing. It will be moving quickly, and will aided by the exhaust. The air from the engine cooling outlet is introduced at this point also, so I think there's no doubt that the airflow between the dam and the wing is very important to how this works.

Hmppfff, turning it upwards means it'll get right into the dirty turbulent air of the cooling outlets, as well as downright take the energy out of it. The exhaust can't help that, there is simply not enough spread for that. That air is meant btw for the mini beam wing and the top of the diffuser.

Rather I think the exhaust is used to energize the underside of the monkeyseat. The big monkeyseat infact is key in aiding the rear wing.

I could be wrong also.

[Pup]

I'm really liking what Jenson has to say.

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/24180 ... 4-29-debut

Especially...

...how much we're going to add to this year aerodynamically and in terms of the engine is massive, so having a good base is important.

[Pup]

That air is meant btw for the mini beam wing and the top of the diffuser.

Well, I don't really know enough to disagree, but it does seem like a very small slot for a lot of air. But, I do agree that the 'leaks' in the dam are probably key to making it effective.

[turbof1]

That air is meant btw for the mini beam wing and the top of the diffuser.

Well, I don't really know enough to disagree, but it does seem like a very small slot for a lot of air. But, I do agree that the 'leaks' in the dam are probably key to making it effective.

Compare it with a diffuser: you want to cramp as much air as you can between the tinniest margin between ground and floor. This creates a venturi effect and accelerates the air, creating low pressure. Just to make sure: they placed the mini beam wing right at the edge of the diffuser. Placing it in the middle of the ramp actually robs downforce because you want higher pressure over it. But a low pressure right behind the diffuser allows quicker air expansion and accelerates air underneath the floor too, very beneficial for downforce overall, not just at the rear.

Like I said, I could be wrong too. I only have armchair aero knowledge, but this is how it seems to me.

[radosav]

I think the mounting points have to be on the crash structure for this to work. The gearbox ends pretty much just behind the driveshaft.

So, to copy it you've got to at least go through another rear crash test. And I think that structurally, this setup is pretty tricky since the tie rod and lower wishbone are bent. And then there's the question of aero since the McLaren is clearly designed with this air dam in mind. Maybe for the other guys it's as easy as moving the bodywork for the engine cooling up, but I'm going to guess that there's some repackaging involved with that, as much as they've talked about how packed everything is.

So, can they copy it? Sure, but as has been said, not quite so easily.

I'm going to say that Spain is surely the earliest we'd see this on any other car.

Sorry for maybe ignorant question, but could other teams add another tie rod and lower wishbone , that will not do anything or affect current suspension, but just be used as Mclaren's mushroom suspension?
In other words false tie rod and lower wishbone?

[jason.parker.86]

McLaren finally trying something new. Always liked the odd numbered McLaren's MP29, 27, 25... Always seem to have more creative designs than the even numbers.
I dont know whether or not the engineers alternate season from season but this years car already looks like a winner. Renault engines surprisingly don't seem to be a match for Mercedes.

[Jackles-UK]

I think the mounting points have to be on the crash structure for this to work. The gearbox ends pretty much just behind the driveshaft.

So, to copy it you've got to at least go through another rear crash test. And I think that structurally, this setup is pretty tricky since the tie rod and lower wishbone are bent. And then there's the question of aero since the McLaren is clearly designed with this air dam in mind. Maybe for the other guys it's as easy as moving the bodywork for the engine cooling up, but I'm going to guess that there's some repackaging involved with that, as much as they've talked about how packed everything is.

So, can they copy it? Sure, but as has been said, not quite so easily.

I'm going to say that Spain is surely the earliest we'd see this on any other car.

Sorry for maybe ignorant question, but could other teams add another tie rod and lower wishbone , that will not do anything or affect current suspension, but just be used as Mclaren's mushroom suspension?
In other words false tie rod and lower wishbone?

No. That would be like someone installing a "false" rear wing underneath the existing one and trying to get away with it - it would clearly have been added for aero effect.

McLaren are trying to get away with the argument that their wishbone arms are actually genuine structural elements of the car which (by total coincidence of course ...) just happened to be profiled in such a way as to improve air flow over the diffuser!

[McG]

From F1.com...

The solution is considered legal by the FIA, but could lead to clarification requests from rival teams - especially as it's one that cannot be easily copied, since it would require a complete redesign of the rear suspension.

I expect the first in the queue to complain will be Horner - the RB10's rear end does not look like it can easily recreate this type of device. It will be quite funny hearing the "spirit of the rules" arguments after the last few years of RB doing "spirit of the rules" things e.g. flexi wings.

The device is rather clever and is obviously central to the McLaren's design as the rear suspension pick ups are so far back on the gearbox. If it works as well as the beam wing did last year then the McLaren might have a second or more in hand at the start of the season.

I agree.

[henra]

No. That would be like someone installing a "false" rear wing underneath the existing one and trying to get away with it - it would clearly have been added for aero effect.

I'm just scratching my head where it is exactly written that Wishbones can have only two inner mounting points?