McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Artur Craft
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Pup wrote:From F1.com...
The solution is considered legal by the FIA, but could lead to clarification requests from rival teams - especially as it's one that cannot be easily copied, since it would require a complete redesign of the rear suspension.
I expect the first in the queue to complain will be Horner - the RB10's rear end does not look like it can easily recreate this type of device. It will be quite funny hearing the "spirit of the rules" arguments after the last few years of RB doing "spirit of the rules" things e.g. flexi wings.

The device is rather clever and is obviously central to the McLaren's design as the rear suspension pick ups are so far back on the gearbox. If it works as well as the beam wing did last year then the McLaren might have a second or more in hand at the start of the season.
Yes, the wishbones are so far behind that it doesn't seem to suggest it's easy to be immediately copied. And, obviously, the only way to make this work is putting it that far back.

Your laptime gain guess might not be that off as not only this will create df themselves but they will make the diffuser works better as well, as was the case with the beam wing.

I also think the nose solution is quite good. There is quite a lot of space for airflow to reach the teatray/splitter, I would say tied on second with Sauber, after Caterham's extreme solution.

No surprise this car has, by far, the most pages...

edit: the wishbones will surely increase drag a lot, as it's basically a vertical wall, but not only will it make air stuck above the car(which increases downforce) but the low pressure zone behind it will help a lot to extract more airflow from the diffuser. The cleverest idea so far, imo.

foxivan
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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the rear suspension is really interesting, i'm sure it will lead to much debate and controversies, and the aero gain is pretty obvious. Really glad to see innovative designs like this, hope it can be retained this reason.

also noticed the front wing, does anyone agree the the uppers flaps are angled outwards so as to deflect air from hitting the front wheels?

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Artur Craft
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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foxivan wrote: also noticed the front wing, does anyone agree the the uppers flaps are angled outwards so as to deflect air from hitting the front wheels?
this is "standard procedure". All teams will do things like these. With the wider FW it was a lot easier to deflect airflow away from the vortices of the spinning uncovered wheels(well, tyres), now there will be maybe some team or two choosing to send airflow between the wheels rather than outwards, but the way to go is really doing what Mclaren is doing.

Something that Gary Anderson didn't make clear in his autosport analysis is that, albeit suspension movement, at higher load, will open up more the gap between the wall/blockers and the diffuser, thus decreasing the drag of it, it will still generate far more downforce/drag at high speeds than the other team's conventional wishbones. There is no magic, downforce always comes with a drag associated with it.

Adam_S
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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daveyrace wrote:
Blackout wrote:
daveyrace wrote:They look almost like paddles, the lower one is definitely a different shape to the upper.
http://i.imgur.com/lHkSePi.jpg
So they made two superposed 'Blonchimont bells'' out of the upper wishbones ?
Using 'Blanchimonts bell' shape I think the rear suspension is laid out a bit like this simple diagram. With the rear parts being able to be bolted on or off the wishbone(shown in a picture above by gandharva) and being asymmetrical(longer section between the arms, how that would work with the rules is beyond me.
I don't think they open up or move(in relation to the suspension arm), I think they create downforce onto the rear suspension and produce a low pressure zone behind which the air from the diffuser is 'attracted' to, not the right terms I know but I am in an armchair.
http://i.imgur.com/gZAf0rB.jpg
Delurks.

So what happens if you get more air going over the top of one of those than over the bottom? I'm guessing that you'd get some kind of net downforce effect, right? As in more air is being pushed upwards than is being pushed downwards, Newton's third law and all that.

Also, what happens if the airflow isn't hitting it square on? If, say, you arranged the airflow so that it was already moving upwards when it hit that shape, in effect changing its angle of attack?

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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GA on the MP4-29..

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stefan_
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Winter Testing 2014 - Session 1, Day 3 (30.01.2014)

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via AMuS
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

Blanchimont
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Clever pitot tubes mounting, it looks to be able to change the position while being on track.
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H2H
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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There is certainly no doubt that this 'paddle' configuration has been investigated for quite some time and is an integral part of the car design. No other team has the downstream mounting points of the suspension arms even nearly so far back, it is a big change indeed.

Now others have rightly pointed out that it doesn't look very efficient in terms L/D, meaning that it seems to cause lots of drag for the downforce they are getting. It seems to me that they are trying to manage the flow with their unique sidepod design and possibly with the wide upstream suspension arm. It looks like a complex problem and the aero folk at McLaren faces a daunting task to make it work as efficiently as possible.

Personally I would be surprised if we see those paddles on any circuit, I guess that the drag penalty is just too high for anything like Monza but if it works it will be used in the street races. If the L/D is too inefficient it will be a bigger penalty then in the former F1 periods as those were not as fuel-limited. In this sense downforce efficiency is in general more important then ever.

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Mr.G
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Blanchimont wrote:Clever pitot tubes mounting, it looks to be able to change the position while being on track.
Same as last year and yes it's movable. However, I would prefer combination of this movable and the big one, as you have only one narrow strip of the flow in the moment. It would be more accurate to have a wider strip (e.g. 3 - 5 rows of pitot tubes) and move those at once.
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

oT v1
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Blanchimont wrote:Clever pitot tubes mounting, it looks to be able to change the position while being on track.
you think they'd be able to 'find' the flows they're looking for live on track?
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stefan_
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Winter Testing 2014 - Session 1, Day 3 (30.01.2014)

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"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

Avocado
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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hakan439
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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It is like a security escort car with many jammer antennas everywhere :D

Crabbia
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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stefan_ wrote:Winter Testing 2014 - Session 1, Day 3 (30.01.2014)

http://i.imgur.com/j28Lz5S.jpg
That rear wing is gorgeous. I dont think i have ever seen those vertical fins go so high on the endplate. Must be related to the trick suspension. Maybe massaging the flow out of the diffuser up after the rear suspension air blockages.
A wise man once told me you cant polish a turd...