McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

[Caldor]

Adrian Newey (sky sports GB):
"...it seems there are 8 items for suspension, of which only 6 are allowed. In addition, there are clear rules for the width of the suspension".

Uh... Is that right? 4 wish bones, 2 track rods, 2 pull/push rods... that's 8 parts... How could you build a suspension with 6?

I think he just wants to complain as his car isn't doing really well. FIA said it is legal so it is.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Adrian Newey (sky sports GB):
"...it seems there are 8 items for suspension, of which only 6 are allowed. In addition, there are clear rules for the width of the suspension".

Uh... Is that right? 4 wish bones, 2 track rods, 2 pull/push rods... that's 8 parts... How could you build a suspension with 6?

His quote was taken out of context because charlex didn't post entire response from Newey:
"I have not seen the photos but as it is described, it sounds as though there are eight suspension elements, where only six are allowed. Moreover, there are clear rules for the width of the suspension."

Okay it still suggests the same thing though, that you can only have a rear suspension made up of 6 components. Counting them out again, 4 wish bones + 2 track rods + 2 pull/push rods = 8.

Let's assume maybe he's not counting the pull/push rods, where is he getting 8 from?

And yes I agree to a certain extent. If another team hasn't thought of it, that automatically makes it illegal.

[AnthonyG]

I drew the "Butterfly McLaren"
I'm not sure how the section in the lower part
http://www.newsf1.it/wp-content/uploads ... claren.jpg

This isn't the profile IMO. I don't think that would be legal.

How you think it is?
I drew the top looking at the picture
I do not know how it is under...

There is a top-view picture a few pages earlier in this thread, you drawing does not comply

[Sebp]

Okay it still suggests the same thing though, that you can only have a rear suspension made up of 6 components. Counting them out again, 4 wish bones + 2 track rods + 2 pull/push rods = 8.

Let's assume maybe he's not counting the pull/push rods, where is he getting 8 from?

Maybe he is referring to one side only.
2 wishbones, 1 push/pull rod, 1 damper, 1 spring, 1 track rod. Or something along those lines.

The "butterflies" would account for the additional two elements as they encase part of one wishbone.

[Crabbia]

Adrian Newey (sky sports GB):
"...it seems there are 8 items for suspension, of which only 6 are allowed. In addition, there are clear rules for the width of the suspension".

Uh... Is that right? 4 wish bones, 2 track rods, 2 pull/push rods... that's 8 parts... How could you build a suspension with 6?

No track rod on rear sus and he could be discounting the drive shaft. Either way i think their argument is going to be that the "butterfly suspension" is superfluous to the needs of a suspension. Basically, "you'd only build it like that if you wanted it to do something else besides hold up the car."

Edit: That, and possibly, making the agrument that the butterfly suspension seems to be "added on" to the suspension arms and not one fluid piece. thereby two additional pieces added on.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Adrian Newey (sky sports GB):
"...it seems there are 8 items for suspension, of which only 6 are allowed. In addition, there are clear rules for the width of the suspension".

Uh... Is that right? 4 wish bones, 2 track rods, 2 pull/push rods... that's 8 parts... How could you build a suspension with 6?

No track rod on rear sus and he could be discounting the drive shaft. Either way i think their argument is going to be that the "butterfly suspension" is superfluous to the needs of a suspension. Basically, "you'd only build it like that if you wanted it to do something else besides hold up the car."

Sorry I meant toe link, not track rod. In it's current form, I agree that perhaps the suspension could be contested. However, I fully expect McLaren to manufacture the wishbones as a single piece. The current setup is obviously geared around being able to quickly test different variations in shape.

[acosmichippo]

because they fit the parameters defined in the regulations, of course. FIA hasn't failed, all the other teams did for not doing it too.

edit:

as posted earlier:

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules ... 8/fia.html

10.3.1 With the exception of minimal local changes of section for the passage of hydraulic brake lines, electrical wiring and wheel tethers or the attachment of flexures, rod ends and spherical bearings, the cross-sections of each member of every suspension component, when taken normal to a straight line between the inner and outer attachment points, must :
a) Intersect the straight line between the inner and outer attachment points.
b) Have a major axis no greater than 100mm.
c) Have an aspect ratio no greater than 3.5:1.
d) Have no dimension which exceeds 100mm.
The major axis will be defined as the largest axis of symmetry of any such cross-section. The length of the intersection of this axis with the cross-section must not be less than 95% of the maximum dimension of the section.

[Coefficient]

If you look at the rear suspension on the Red Bull:-
http://abload.de/img/backf3utf.jpg
http://abload.de/img/22wzld4.jpg

And then look at the McLaren:-
http://s29.postimg.org/jscd4yviv/mp4_29_above.jpg

Using the drive shaft for reference, you can see just how radically different the geometry is. The Red Bull rear pickup points are actually forward of the rear axle! If Red Bull wanted to adopt this, they would have to completely redesign their rear suspension, and possibly repackage the rear to get the pick-up points in.

Would they also need to get the rear-crash structure tested?

Some teams would need a new gearbox too surely because springs and dampers are often found inside the gearbox casing to reduce drag and lower CoG. Also, pick up points are part of the gearbox casting. It's a massive expense that could derail planned development of other teams. It would also completely interefere with flow structures of other team's aero concepts so it could be more detremental to pursue than just sticking to their own path.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

MP4-29 RW flo-vis. Looks good mostly but centre line separation on RW flap. <-- via @F1_Aero

In this pic we can see the RW pitots are references for rear drum & suspension leg trappings. <-- via @F1_Aero

[Avocado]

[Mr.G]

Adrian Newey (sky sports GB):
"...it seems there are 8 items for suspension, of which only 6 are allowed. In addition, there are clear rules for the width of the suspension".

Uh... Is that right? 4 wish bones, 2 track rods, 2 pull/push rods... that's 8 parts... How could you build a suspension with 6?

...it seems there are 8 items... ...of which only 6 are allowed... I think he want to say 6 legal + 2 illegal (butterfly)... give you your 8 again...

[Blanchimont]

Okay it still suggests the same thing though, that you can only have a rear suspension made up of 6 components. Counting them out again, 4 wish bones + 2 track rods + 2 pull/push rods = 8.

Let's assume maybe he's not counting the pull/push rods, where is he getting 8 from?

Maybe he is referring to one side only.
2 wishbones, 1 push/pull rod, 1 damper, 1 spring, 1 track rod. Or something along those lines.

The "butterflies" would account for the additional two elements as they encase part of one wishbone.

You got it right Sebp, 6 elements are allowed for each upright.

"10.3.5
There may be no more than six suspension members connecting each suspension upright to the fully sprung part of the car.
Redundant suspension members are not permitted."

Edit:
6 = 1 push/pull rod + 1 track rod + 2 wishbones (2 elements each)
6 = 1 + 1 + 2*2

[Avocado]

[Coefficient]

Okay it still suggests the same thing though, that you can only have a rear suspension made up of 6 components. Counting them out again, 4 wish bones + 2 track rods + 2 pull/push rods = 8.

Let's assume maybe he's not counting the pull/push rods, where is he getting 8 from?

Maybe he is referring to one side only.
2 wishbones, 1 push/pull rod, 1 damper, 1 spring, 1 track rod. Or something along those lines.

The "butterflies" would account for the additional two elements as they encase part of one wishbone.

You got it right Sebp, 6 elements are allowed for each upright.

"10.3.5
There may be no more than six suspension members connecting each suspension upright to the fully sprung part of the car.
Redundant suspension members are not permitted."

So the 6 elements are made up of the 3 element upper wishbone, the 2 element lowere wishbone and the pull rod? .If so I guess the drive shaft falls under transmission and is not relevant to the suspension element count. The track rod must be acting as one of the Wishbone elements.

[neilbah]

The rear suspension is quite fascinating and im glad to see innovation. Im concerned though that these fancy rear suspension arms go from being flat with the aero neutral profile to a essentially vertical position throughout which there is a transition in the shape. I could understand a loophole if the entire component was placed vertically in orientation from the crash structure to the brake ducts but there gonna be one hell of a protest with these. If allowed then surely they could run different versions depending on track?