whats wrong with the renault engines?

[dans79]

Can you imagine what an "electromagnetic cloud" a swarm of F1 cars will create on the starting grid? The interference levels among them have not yet even been evaluated as to their effect on on board controls.

field strength is inversely proportional to the cube of the distance from the source, so i don't think cars will have an effect on each other.

Perhaps, but then there's this from Horner...

"Red Bull is the works partner of Renault for next year, so effectively it is the factory team and, yes, we've been very closely involved in the development of the power unit in terms of installation."

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12475 ... ng-in-2014

So presumably, Renault were well aware of how the engine, etc. would be packed into the RB. This might explain why RB seem a bit snippy with Renault at the moment.

true but you also have Renault saying that some of the issues RBR are having, are because of Newey's packing.

I think this year we are going to see the real Newey, a man who is an exceptional aerodynamicist, but is a little lacking when it comes to other aspects of car design.

[dren]

Which might explain why Boullier was convinced that Lotus wouldn't be the only team to not be at the test. He probably figured that Renault wouldn't be ready.

Yes, good point, exactly.

[Pup]

Q&A press release from Renault...

http://www.renaultsportf1.com/Q-A-with- ... ml?lang=en

We have seen very little running from the Renault-engined teams this week. What have the issues been?

We have not run enough laps, and when we have they have not been run at an acceptable performance level.

The underlying causes are not straightforward: there isn’t a single component or system that has caused particular trouble. A number of related things have been troublesome, principally concerning the control and operation of the various sub-systems of the Power Unit within the car.

For example on the first run day, we had problems with a sub-system within the Energy Store that did not directly concern either the battery nor the operation of the battery – it is an electronic part that was in the same housing as the Energy Store.

We subsequently had problems with turbocharger and boost control systems with knock-on effects on the associated engine management systems, subsequently provoking mechanical failures.

What fixes did you implement in Jerez?

Between days 1 and 2 with the help of Red Bull, we implemented a later level of hardware for the rest of the test to address the problem within the Energy Store. This ran for the remaining days.

In parallel to running in Jerez, the team at Viry has run dyno test programs to investigate the trackside problems and to propose solutions.

We identified the probable root cause of our main turbo control issues, implemented some workarounds that were first seen at the end of day 3 and deployed in the three cars for day 4. This established a very minimalist baseline from which we could build.

Why were these issues not flagged up on the dyno?

We believed our initial configuration was a robust start point for track use but it has not proved to be the case. We have done substantial dyno running in a similar configuration with few issues. We now know that the differences between dyno and car are bigger than we expected, with the consequence that our initial impressions were incomplete and imperfect.

Our intention was to run the car; we are very frustrated to face this litany of issues that we should have ironed out on the dyno and which have deprived us of a precious learning opportunity.

Have you learned from the limited running?

Absolutely, and at this stage every kilometre is hugely valuable. We recognize that when the cars have run, they are not running at an acceptable level. We are a long way from the type of operation we had planned and prepared for – largely as a result of the workarounds we have implemented – but all the information is useful. In dealing with the issues we have moved further away from the configuration we were comfortable with, which has resulted in the relatively slow times, but the running has given us a vastly greater understanding of the issues we face. We absolutely expect to have a more definitive solution in place for the next session in Bahrain.

Has every team experienced the same issues?

Several problems are common to all, as the power unit is the same specification in all the cars except for relatively minor installations differences. Some problems are particular to one installation environment, but it is our responsibility to deal with all of them.

In general, the individual issues are understood; we have worked with all three teams running this week and despite appearances, have made some useful progress. We have not uncovered any big new fundamental problem, although we must recognize that our limited running makes it impossible to be certain.

What is the road map from now until the second test in Bahrain?

Of course we now have a large job list for Bahrain as a lot of the items we wanted to test in Jerez we have not been able to cover. The next stage is to identify the root causes for the problems we experienced, to develop the solutions to strengthen our validation process so we can be more confident to tackle Bahrain in a more normal way.

Are you concerned by the fact that engine specifications are frozen pre-season?

The homologation deadline is the end of February and is fundamental to regulations. Beyond that time, changes are permitted only with prior approval from the FIA. Change is not forbidden, but subject to the sporting regulations and we should not get so hung up on this date.

In view of this test, are you still in favour of the new regulations?

Yes absolutely. The powertrain regulations are a massive challenge but also an opportunity, and are hugely important in placing F1 back at the vanguard of technology. We have the necessary tools and determination to succeed.

The step we must take to reach an acceptable level of in-car performance is bigger than we would have liked. It is unacceptable that we have not been able to mitigate the problems sufficiently to allow our partners to run at any length. We are working hard to correct this in time for Bahrain and aim to make amends there.

[Blackout]

Edit, Pup was faster.

[321apex]

Which might explain why Boullier was convinced that Lotus wouldn't be the only team to not be at the test. He probably figured that Renault wouldn't be ready.

Mr. Boullier knows that in the longterm without money you will not be successful in F1 these days. I have a feeling, that he also knew the financial capabilties or lack thereof of Team Lotus. He was sadly the person in the spotlight, when Kimi revealed his salary non-payment status in Summer of 2013.

I regard him highly for having brought an under financed F1 team to the front. This is not an easy task.

[Pup]

http://www.renaultsportf1.com/Q-A-with- ... ml?lang=en...

Beat you!

[321apex]

!

While Rob White is a highly regarded ex Cosworth guy in the racing industry, he is unable to provide any technical specifics about the problems afflicting Renault F1 power package. I trust however, that they will get on top of it to the extent this green-green technology allows them at this steep point in the learning curve.

[motobaleno]

reading renault press realease the situation seems rather worrying.

"We have not uncovered any big new fundamental problem, although we must recognize that our limited running makes it impossible to be certain."

"We NOW know that the differences between dyno and car are bigger than we expected, with the consequence that our initial impressions were incomplete and imperfect."


mhhh

[simieski]

I don't think I've seen this posted so far, apologies if I've missed it;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/25984458

Not that I am a particular fan of his articles but Andrew Benson mentions :

'' So what is wrong? Well, two main things, it seems.
Firstly, there is a fundamental problem with the Renault power unit, which is affecting all the French company's teams.
Excessive oscillation in the drivetrain - vibrations, essentially - is preventing the complex energy-recovery system from working properly. Secondly, Red Bull have what Horner describes as "chassis cooling issues". ''

[Manoah2u]

reading renault press realease the situation seems rather worrying.

"We have not uncovered any big new fundamental problem, although we must recognize that our limited running makes it impossible to be certain."

"We NOW know that the differences between dyno and car are bigger than we expected, with the consequence that our initial impressions were incomplete and imperfect."


mhhh

well there's a blank statement.

Still the basics are simple; ferrari and mercedes also dyno run their products, and somehow their differences are less between that and reality?

incomplete and imperfect is the mildest way to put it.

but understandably, renault aren't gonna bring their own product down so it's a logical response.
it's now waiting to see what happens at bahrain, i guess.

fortunately toro rosso got some results. i'd be curious to see just how the engine holds against the ferrari and merc engines if they'd actually work like they should.

[dans79]

Of course we now have a large job list for Bahrain as a lot of the items we wanted to test in Jerez we have not been able to cover. The next stage is to identify the root causes for the problems we experienced, to develop the solutions to strengthen our validation process so we can be more confident to tackle Bahrain in a more normal way.

they don't know what the problem is, they have just found a workaround. That's not a good thing, specially with a system as complicated as the new power units.

[Pup]

Today's news from TJ13 - assign whatever weight to their report as you like...

As I reported yesterday, I have been informed by a source whose reliability is unquestionable, the complete fix for Renault’s woes will take between 15 and 20 weeks, and seeing as it was TJ13 who exclusively revealed the Renault problems on Monday night – days before anyone else – this information is equally solid.

The engines are soon to be homologated, which leaves Renault up against it should this be enforced by the FIA. TJ13 learned from an FIA source that this will be ‘looked at’ in an attempt to cut Renault some slack if necessary.

TJ13 was led to believe on Tuesday that the problem could be a production/fabrication issue only, however as the week has progressed, the French engine manufacturer has been forced to look again at aspects of their powertrains.

[Skippon]

And its an even bigger problem if their Dyno's do not correlate with neither track running or the car installation!!!!!!

[NTS]

Still the basics are simple; ferrari and mercedes also dyno run their products, and somehow their differences are less between that and reality?

Mercedes did a test run before the actual test as a "filming session", I guess Renault should have arranged something similar because their current situation makes them look quite incompetent.

If the FIA will cut them some slack again, just like with the previous engine freeze I would understand some protests from Mercedes and Ferrari. It would be unfair if they are not allowed to improve their engines while Renault is. That would penalize them for being ready on time.

But not allowing Renault to fix their engine would ruin the whole F1 season, since four teams (of which at least two were serious title contenders) would probably drop out of the championship.

So basically the FIA cannot make a good choice either way...

[Ganxxta]

Mercedes did a test run before the actual test as a "filming session", I guess Renault should have arranged something similar because their current situation makes them look quite incompetent.

If the FIA will cut them some slack again, just like with the previous engine freeze I would understand some protests from Mercedes and Ferrari. It would be unfair if they are not allowed to improve their engines while Renault is. That would penalize them for being ready on time.

But not allowing Renault to fix their engine would ruin the whole F1 season, since four teams (of which at least two were serious title contenders) would probably drop out of the championship.

So basically the FIA cannot make a good choice either way...

Easiest way for the FIA could be to postpone the engine freeze to eg. the first race for all manufacturers, so that Renault can fix their issues to be more or less reliable and Mercedes and Ferrari can improve power/fuel consumption/heat management etc.