whats wrong with the renault engines?

[radosav]

Mercedes did a test run before the actual test as a "filming session", I guess Renault should have arranged something similar because their current situation makes them look quite incompetent.

If the FIA will cut them some slack again, just like with the previous engine freeze I would understand some protests from Mercedes and Ferrari. It would be unfair if they are not allowed to improve their engines while Renault is. That would penalize them for being ready on time.

But not allowing Renault to fix their engine would ruin the whole F1 season, since four teams (of which at least two were serious title contenders) would probably drop out of the championship.

So basically the FIA cannot make a good choice either way...

Easiest way for the FIA could be to postpone the engine freeze to eg. the first race for all manufacturers, so that Renault can fix their issues to be more or less reliable and Mercedes and Ferrari can improve power/fuel consumption/heat management etc.

Exactly! Extra time that Renault gets, so should get Mercedes and Ferrari!

[Manoah2u]

Mercedes did a test run before the actual test as a "filming session", I guess Renault should have arranged something similar because their current situation makes them look quite incompetent.

If the FIA will cut them some slack again, just like with the previous engine freeze I would understand some protests from Mercedes and Ferrari. It would be unfair if they are not allowed to improve their engines while Renault is. That would penalize them for being ready on time.

But not allowing Renault to fix their engine would ruin the whole F1 season, since four teams (of which at least two were serious title contenders) would probably drop out of the championship.

So basically the FIA cannot make a good choice either way...

Easiest way for the FIA could be to postpone the engine freeze to eg. the first race for all manufacturers, so that Renault can fix their issues to be more or less reliable and Mercedes and Ferrari can improve power/fuel consumption/heat management etc.

Exactly! Extra time that Renault gets, so should get Mercedes and Ferrari!

bingo. merc and ferrari did make it work. renault didn't. so renault failed. their mistake. renault should not 'get a benefit' from their own incompetence (how weird that may sound). If renault are relieved from engine freezing yet ferrari and merc aren't, then simply put, they'll lose out - or better said - it's unfair competition.

so indeed, the FIA should, if renault indeed fails hugely, postpone the freeze date. i'd say they should just freeze it in june.

makes me wonder tho; with the engine freeze stuff, how does that work for Honda stepping in?

[bonjon1979]

Still the basics are simple; ferrari and mercedes also dyno run their products, and somehow their differences are less between that and reality?

Mercedes did a test run before the actual test as a "filming session", I guess Renault should have arranged something similar because their current situation makes them look quite incompetent.

If the FIA will cut them some slack again, just like with the previous engine freeze I would understand some protests from Mercedes and Ferrari. It would be unfair if they are not allowed to improve their engines while Renault is. That would penalize them for being ready on time.

But not allowing Renault to fix their engine would ruin the whole F1 season, since four teams (of which at least two were serious title contenders) would probably drop out of the championship.

So basically the FIA cannot make a good choice either way...

Sorry but the last few years we have seen 'serious title contenders' mess up and have a dog in preseason. They weren't granted extra sessions to sort themselves out. Everyone knew the rules and tough luck if you don't make the cut. If Renault fails it gives the chance for marussia, sauber and force India to shine. It should be a meritocracy and if you mess up, you pay the price.

[NTS]

makes me wonder tho; with the engine freeze stuff, how does that work for Honda stepping in?

There was a thread about that, basically Honda has a huge advantage because they are not bound by the rules (and thus not frozen) until they actually join F1. The other engine suppliers are not very happy about it, but there was no agreed upon solution to it.

What makes it worse to them is that Honda is allowed to be in meetings and of course gets data from McLaren. Nothing they can do about it at the moment...

[F1NAC]

aren't engine manufactures able to do minor changes to their engines if there are problems with reliability during homologation period ,just like Ferrari had problems back in 2010 at the start of the season?

[bosanac1]

Minor changes won't due much for Renault. Rob White in interview mentions that 'The step we must take to reach an acceptable level of in-car performance is bigger than we would have liked'
It seems to be more then just reliability.

[kalinka]

Rob White : "We absolutely expect to have a more definitive solution in place for the next session in Bahrain."

This cautious choose of words is quite telling. So they only hope to have a "more definitive" solution for Bahrain, but not a definitive/final solution. It could be again some "patch" which will mean some performance and/or packaging restrictions I believe.

[smlbstcbr]

This is rather ridiculous for an engine constructor like Renault! It's like if their senior engineers left the building during development of the power units and now are spending 24/7 testing their electronics piece-by-piece with a multimeter to see which resistance blew and then re-think about what has caused it! If the rumours about their inherent resonance problems are true, then the Renault teams better start developing for 2015 because, not even with a budget like that of NASA during the Apollo project they will find a solution for Bahrain.

[Jersey Tom]

Interesting developments. Certainly puts Renault behind a bit, and certainly a bit surprising. But then there's a difference between the fans / media, and professionals. The fans / media love getting spun around by drama and all this crap, and then there are all sorts of theories and speculation and press conferences that people will read into however they please. Blah blah blah it's the end of the world for Renault teams. Professionals go to work, lay out the facts, make a plan, and execute it - cool and collected. Certainly there are very capable people at RBR, Renault, and the like.

In professional motorsports there are organizations who have suffered appreciable engine-related issues early in race seasons and come back to win championships. Ask me how I know...

Also-

Any engineer worth what they get payed in F1 would be able to indirectly get small performance improvements approved.

For what it's worth, many engineers in F1 get paid very poorly.

[fasterthanyou]

Still the basics are simple; ferrari and mercedes also dyno run their products, and somehow their differences are less between that and reality?

Mercedes did a test run before the actual test as a "filming session", I guess Renault should have arranged something similar because their current situation makes them look quite incompetent.

If the FIA will cut them some slack again, just like with the previous engine freeze I would understand some protests from Mercedes and Ferrari. It would be unfair if they are not allowed to improve their engines while Renault is. That would penalize them for being ready on time.

But not allowing Renault to fix their engine would ruin the whole F1 season, since four teams (of which at least two were serious title contenders) would probably drop out of the championship.

So basically the FIA cannot make a good choice either way...

Sorry but the last few years we have seen 'serious title contenders' mess up and have a dog in preseason. They weren't granted extra sessions to sort themselves out. Everyone knew the rules and tough luck if you don't make the cut. If Renault fails it gives the chance for marussia, sauber and force India to shine. It should be a meritocracy and if you mess up, you pay the price.

What Force India/Marussia did that make them deserve to shine more than Toro Rosso or Caterham? I can understand the works teams being punished by their own incompetence, after all they built the engine but I don't think this applies to non-works team.

[FW17]

I guess they did not run a test mule in magny cours after all1

[FW17]

What Force India/Marussia did that make them deserve to shine more than Toro Rosso or Caterham? I can understand the works teams being punished by their own incompetence, after all they built the engine but I don't think this applies to non-works team.

Customer teams could always switch to other engine manufacturers, Renault is the most expensive engine deal of the 3.

[raymondu999]

Someone brought up the possibility of Renault customers defecting to a rivl engine. How technically feasible is that? The closest to that would I guess be the Brawn last minute Mercedes switch?

[G-Rock]

Rumour out of France has it that Renaults camshaft has a small lift profile...for reliability maybe??

[Mysticf1]

Engine mounting points are standardized in the regulations so gbox would be the major modification.

Someone brought up the possibility of Renault customers defecting to a rivl engine. How technically feasible is that? The closest to that would I guess be the Brawn last minute Mercedes switch?