Red Bull RB10 Renault

[aral]

Everyone thinks it's a simply overheating problem, but that was never communicated. The visible problems are just small burn marks at the same point of both sidepods. And in this area is no cooler and normally no exhaust. So i would assume it is something electronic.

you are correct. it is not engine overheating that is the problem, but that heat radiated from the engine is frying the electronic controls and inverters that are located in a very small space. vents were created to try and keep these electronics cooler but didn't work. the units need to be positioned in a good airlflow. remember, even a 1o overheat can destroy electronics.
all that being said, the engine itself is causing problems, not in the mechanical workings, but in the electronic interface between the ers and the turbo. nothing to do with heat, but just incorrect programming.

[CmdrVOODOO]

Cosworth has a V6 power train ready to go. However I doubt Red Bull and Renault will split, they'll struggle through together into sorting the issues out with the aim to get back on the winning bandwagon they've been on for the last few seasons. That's assuming the RB10 is one of Newey's less than stellar cars i.e. Fast but Fragile or a complete dogs dinner. Anyway with the warmer temperatures at the next test, the other power trains might struggle. Who knows.

Considering Red Bull's title sponsor is Infiniti, and Nissan (Infiniti) and Renault have an "industrial and commercial partnership", Red Bull is staying with Renault power. They will work together and get it squared away.

http://www.renault.com/en/groupe/l-alli ... issan.aspx

The questions are: Is there enough time before Melbourne? What sort of design/performance compromises will have to be made for the sake of reliability?

[Anon123]

Cosworth has a V6 power train ready to go. However I doubt Red Bull and Renault will split, they'll struggle through together into sorting the issues out with the aim to get back on the winning bandwagon they've been on for the last few seasons. That's assuming the RB10 is one of Newey's less than stellar cars i.e. Fast but Fragile or a complete dogs dinner. Anyway with the warmer temperatures at the next test, the other power trains might struggle. Who knows.

Considering Red Bull's title sponsor is Infiniti, and Nissan (Infiniti) and Renault have an "industrial and commercial partnership", Red Bull is staying with Renault power. They will work together and get it squared away.

http://www.renault.com/en/groupe/l-alli ... issan.aspx

The questions are: Is there enough time before Melbourne? What sort of design/performance compromises will have to be made for the sake of reliability?

The only Renault car that got a reasonable amount of laps in was the Caterham and that has a huge back end, perhaps Red Bull will have to give up the coke bottle.

[danielk]

The problem is Red bull still haven't had chance to shake down their car. That shakedown will come in Bahrain unless they can get a few filming days done in between. Red Bull know what problems have occured after doing short stints. They can fix these and come again in Bahrain. But they have no idea of what other problems are lurking that they have yet to find out about as they haven't been able to put the car through its paces. Merc did all that running but admitted they have a very long list of faults they had to work on. The more they run the more faults they found. Red bull have not had this luxury so at the moment they could have hundreds of faults that they just havent been able to discover yet.

On the other hand it could be that the rest of the car is incredibly well made and thought out and no other problems exist except from the ones which occurred at low temperature and under minimal strain, they may fix these problems and then run sweet as you like in Bahrain, finding everything else is just perfect.

With regards compromise i think it is clear that their will have to be compromise with regards cooling, cooling was a confirmed issue so this will have an affect on that tight back end of theres, i expect some bulked out sidepods or engine cover/outlets come next test. I expect they may go over the top with cooling and then shrink it back down before Melbourne to be safe and to get some meaningful running in. as last thing they need is not have enough cooling again and miss another test :S

[Ozan]

this year I think A.Newey won't be able to get away with tight packaging like he did last 4 years

[ringo]

Their IC engine can't be that much hotter than the other cars.
As some have said before, it's heat that is passing over a component. Or a component that can't handle the heat cycle that is put through it.
Maybe that component needs to be placed elsewhere and the packaging compromised.

But saying that i'd like to see what Renault have to say about the real issue when they fix it.

[beelsebob]

Their IC engine can't be that much hotter than the other cars.

No, but as plenty of people observed, their packaging is a lot tighter than other cars.

That, and it appears that the other Renault runners can't run packaging even as tight as the others, let alone tighter, so it appears that RBR's problem with cooling is two fold:
1) They were more ambitious packaging wise than anyone else
2) They have the hottest running power unit of the three (even if only by a small margin)

Those two sum up to big cooling problems.

[raymondu999]

Couldn't it be their packaging layout and not the packaging size that's the issue? Something very hot inconveniently (or erroneously) placed next to something very heat sensitive?

[Blackout]

Their IC engine can't be that much hotter than the other cars.

No, but as plenty of people observed, their packaging is a lot tighter than other cars.

That, and it appears that the other Renault runners can't run packaging even as tight as the others, let alone tighter, so it appears that RBR's problem with cooling is two fold:
1) They were more ambitious packaging wise than anyone else
2) They have the hottest running power unit of the three (even if only by a small margin)

Those two sum up to big cooling problems.

The STR9 ha much smaller, lower and tighter sidepods than the RB10 and is one of the tightest on the grid.
The RB10 sidepods are not very tight.

[astracrazy]

Their IC engine can't be that much hotter than the other cars.

No, but as plenty of people observed, their packaging is a lot tighter than other cars.

That, and it appears that the other Renault runners can't run packaging even as tight as the others, let alone tighter, so it appears that RBR's problem with cooling is two fold:
1) They were more ambitious packaging wise than anyone else
2) They have the hottest running power unit of the three (even if only by a small margin)

Those two sum up to big cooling problems.

The STR9 ha much smaller, lower and tighter sidepods than the RB10 and is one of the tightest on the grid.
The RB10 sidepods are not very tight.

The STR9 has a very fat engine cover though...

[Lazy]

Couldn't it be their packaging layout and not the packaging size that's the issue? Something very hot inconveniently (or erroneously) placed next to something very heat sensitive?

That's what I've read, some unspecified electrical control components packaged with the battery among other things. Which I believe is one of the things that Renault were apparently "surprised" about. Given they are the de facto works team though, it's surprising that they are surprised about anything tbh.

[raymondu999]

Their IC engine can't be that much hotter than the other cars.

No, but as plenty of people observed, their packaging is a lot tighter than other cars.

That, and it appears that the other Renault runners can't run packaging even as tight as the others, let alone tighter, so it appears that RBR's problem with cooling is two fold:
1) They were more ambitious packaging wise than anyone else
2) They have the hottest running power unit of the three (even if only by a small margin)

Those two sum up to big cooling problems.

The STR9 ha much smaller, lower and tighter sidepods than the RB10 and is one of the tightest on the grid.
The RB10 sidepods are not very tight.

I think there's a bit of an illusion - I think the "real" coke bottle is hidden from top view by the hot air exhausts - the hot air exhausts exit at a fat section above the real, tighter coke bottle.

[Blackout]

I'm talking about the STR9's sidepods too not only the coke bottle. The latter is normal; not the tigtest, but not fat... The sidepods in the other hand, I mean the part that hosts the radiators, the electronics etc, is very small, low and tight. Even the bodywork around the exhausts looks very tight on the STR9. The Rb10 has much taller and bigger sidepods.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 1&start=45
http://cdn-6.motorsport.com/static/img/ ... 6/s1_1.jpg
http://cdn-4.motorsport.com/static/img/ ... 4/s1_1.jpg
http://grandprix247.com/wp-content/uplo ... -extra.jpg

[Mandrake]

I agree with Blackout, I've put it somewhere else already but I think Engine cover / Coke bottle wise the STR looks more like a Red Bull of the past than the RB10 does.

But still, take a look at the packaging of the Ferrari and the Merc, they are very well packaged, similar to STR / RB but have next to no problems. Only the Caterham seemed to be without heat related problems. But then its packaging is far from state of the art.

If the renault engine unit in Australia spec still needs more overall cooling it will be a huge loss for RedBull who will have to throw away their good aerodynamical shape in order to supply enough cooling......

[Blackout]

Does the STR9 have overheating problems ? I dont think so. But it didnt run many kms anyway. We'll see in Bahrain.