2014 too slow? (or not, as the case may be)

[f1316]

Just wanted to make specific reference to this article in autosport (apologies if there's already a better thread):

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112403

What strikes me is that it's really the opposite of what the drivers (or really just Sutil) are saying: if the cars, in their current state without turning everything up or having full aero packages, are as fast as a V10 2001 car, I think that's pretty good.



Sutil's criticism in particular seems silly, as we know Sauber were running a very basic package, and his comments on the tyres seemed to disregard that these were specific winter tyres not intended for racing.

[Manoah2u]

Just wanted to make specific reference to this article in autosport (apologies if there's already a better thread):

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112403

What strikes me is that it's really the opposite of what the drivers (or really just Sutil) are saying: if the cars, in their current state without turning everything up or having full aero packages, are as fast as a V10 2001 car, I think that's pretty good.

Sutil's criticism in particular seems silly, as we know Sauber were running a very basic package, and his comments on the tyres seemed to disregard that these were specific winter tyres not intended for racing.

Sutil never had any positive critisism and should be taken standard with a [huge] grain of salt.

It's just media talk where words are twisted and used for entertainment purposes. No single driver will state for a moment they believe the jerez track times were even remotely close to the final product at AUS, and for that matter, i think most teams and drivers will expect it will take atleast half a year's season before they're getting the best out of the engines for that moment.

[fasterthanyou]

Sutil never had any positive critisism and should be taken standard with a [huge] grain of salt.

It's just media talk where words are twisted and used for entertainment purposes. No single driver will state for a moment they believe the jerez track times were even remotely close to the final product at AUS, and for that matter, i think most teams and drivers will expect it will take atleast half a year's season before they're getting the best out of the engines for that moment.

It's not just him though. Alonso, Massa and Button basically said the same thing. Of course they are not on the edge in Jerez but I think the drivers are well aware they are not that far off either. I'm just speculating though.

[CHT]

Sutil never had any positive critisism and should be taken standard with a [huge] grain of salt.

It's just media talk where words are twisted and used for entertainment purposes. No single driver will state for a moment they believe the jerez track times were even remotely close to the final product at AUS, and for that matter, i think most teams and drivers will expect it will take atleast half a year's season before they're getting the best out of the engines for that moment.

It's not just him though. Alonso, Massa and Button basically said the same thing. Of course they are not on the edge in Jerez but I think the drivers are well aware they are not that far off either. I'm just speculating though.

Think the limitation is due to the lack of grip caused by the lack of down force and harder tyres. Under the current tight technical regulation on aero I doubt team will be able to gain a few seconds from aero tweak unless someone find a loophole as big as double diffuser.

[SiLo]

Why don't they just get on with it? They have done one test, most of the team ran well under their limits with regards to engine performance and aerodynamics as well as having special winter tyres which are even harder.

To me it's like they are complaining early so that if their car is slow they can say "I told you so".

[fasterthanyou]

Not all the tyres Pirelli brought are winter tyres. They brought winter version only of the hard compound. Besides, I don't think Pirelli ever said the winter tyres are actually harder. What's the point of even harder tyre, it makes it even more difficult to warm up.

[danielk]

1) Teams have admitted they are not running flat out
2) Teams likely havent taken all the fuel out as they were not concentrating on performance runs
3) Many teams have bought basic spec cars and have massive upgrades coming
4) Drivers will have been told to take it easy so as not to break a car for which they have so few parts being so new
5) ENGINE MAPS - They were experimenting, they are learning how to get the car to put the power down where, how when and how much.
6) Temperatures are not optimal for running so tires likely to have not been in the operating window.
7) Teams will not want to demonstrate everything they have & came to the test solely to prove reliability

for all the reasons above i believe that teams have a fair few seconds in lap time that they will recover by time re reach australia

[f1316]

Agreed ^^

And my point was that 2001 cars were hardly slow - if the 2014 cars can trundle around at lower (I heard 80% for Ferrari) power and still match a 2001 car, why is that slow? (I know those cars had groove tyres but I still don't remember the word 'slow' being mentioned that year).

I suppose it's just what they've got used to, but still...

[fasterthanyou]

1) Teams have admitted they are not running flat out
2) Teams likely havent taken all the fuel out as they were not concentrating on performance runs
3) Many teams have bought basic spec cars and have massive upgrades coming
4) Drivers will have been told to take it easy so as not to break a car for which they have so few parts being so new
5) ENGINE MAPS - They were experimenting, they are learning how to get the car to put the power down where, how when and how much.
6) Temperatures are not optimal for running so tires likely to have not been in the operating window.
7) Teams will not want to demonstrate everything they have & came to the test solely to prove reliability

for all the reasons above i believe that teams have a fair few seconds in lap time that they will recover by time re reach australia

1) Sure they were not running flat out but how do they prove reliabilty if they aren't pushing to the race level performance.
2) Rosberg said low fuel behaviour of this year car more or less like high fuel behaviour of last year car indicating low fuel run.
4) From the videos, they were not cruising around either.
6) 2012 was pretty cold too.

I do agree they will gain few seconds come Australia but I will be surprised if they are within 2 seconds of last year car. But 2 seconds off is not too bad.

[Paulington]

I think it's too early to be worrying about this. It's the first laps these cars have ever taken and they aren't even interested in all-out performance yet as they want reliability first.

I think the cars will only be 2-3 seconds slower, if that, come Melbourne.

[PlatinumZealot]

the elephant in the room is the weight of the vehicle guys!
The minimum weight is 80 kilograms heavier!

[Shrieker]

the elephant in the room is the weight of the vehicle guys!
The minimum weight is 80 kilograms heavier!

When you take this into context with the graph in the OP's message, it's actually pretty darn impressive. Maybe people tend to call these cars slow because they don't really sound that fast.

[Juzh]

the elephant in the room is the weight of the vehicle guys!
The minimum weight is 80 kilograms heavier!

50 actually, but ok.

[Holm86]

the elephant in the room is the weight of the vehicle guys!
The minimum weight is 80 kilograms heavier!

When you take this into context with the graph in the OP's message, it's actually pretty darn impressive. Maybe people tend to call these cars slow because they don't really sound that fast.

Take into account that they are doing this with a hell of a lot less fuel than they did back then its even more impressive.

[WillerZ]

The Jerez circuit was remodelled in 2002 (I suspect that's why there is no point on the graph for 2002): I don't think a comparison to the performance of the 2001 cars on the 2001 circuit is particularly relevant.

Let's wait until Q3 in Melbourne.