Ferrari F14T

[zioture]

http://www.newsf1.it/wp-content/uploads ... sh_rod.jpg
The pull rod on the ferrari does not seem to have aerodynamic advantages, compared to that of Mercedes AMG.
I think the push rod Mercedes is better than ferrari less drag.
Why Ferrari has chosen ul pull-rod then?

The aerodynamic advantage you are seeing there is that the MB has its steering rod directly behind the upper front wishbone. This gives them far less frontal area reducing drag. Ferrari's is exposed. advantage BM.

Ferrari's lower wish bones mount much higher on the tub side. In the photo compare were the lower wishbones attach between the two cars (use the camera housing as a reference). This gives the Ferrari much cleaner air under the tub. Advantage Ferrari.

The pull rod is smaller in length than the push rod. This means that there is less of a frontal area reducing drag, Small advantage Ferrari.

It all depends on how the teams weighed up those advantages and how those advantages enhance what ever else they have downstream.

Another advantages of Ferrari's pull rod arrangement is it act as a flow conditioner & vortex generator and thus it direct turbulent air towards radiators with more force than normal push rod. And as Ferrari is pretty much familiar with this layout so they can develop their car without worrying about front suspension wake and their behavior on the overall car.

it is interesting you can make a drawing of how it works ... ?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

http://www.newsf1.it/wp-content/uploads ... sh_rod.jpg
The pull rod on the ferrari does not seem to have aerodynamic advantages, compared to that of Mercedes AMG.
I think the push rod Mercedes is better than ferrari less drag.
Why Ferrari has chosen ul pull-rod then?

The almost horizontal orientation of the pullrod is aerodynamically preferable compared to a high angle pushrod. The pullrod can be thinner and the pullrod is in line with the upwash of the FW wake and this helps better control flow to the sidepod inlets and to the rear of the car. As far as airflow goes, the pullrod is more aerodynamically beneficial than the pushrod.

[Crabbia]

Nice to know that the dreaded wind tunnel/track correlation issues shouldn't affect the F14T like it affected its predecessors....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112397

[Huntresa]

Nice to know that the dreaded wind tunnel/track correlation issues shouldn't affect the F14T like it affected its predecessors....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112397

Dont get your hopes up, even when they used the Toyota one they got the numbers wrong...

[Mr.G]

Nice to know that the dreaded wind tunnel/track correlation issues shouldn't affect the F14T like it affected its predecessors....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112397

Dont get your hopes up, even when they used the Toyota one they got the numbers wrong...

IIRC they use Toyota's and everything was ok, but then they switch mid-season to they own and things get screwed up.

[Huntresa]

Nice to know that the dreaded wind tunnel/track correlation issues shouldn't affect the F14T like it affected its predecessors....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112397

Dont get your hopes up, even when they used the Toyota one they got the numbers wrong...

IIRC they use Toyota's and everything was ok, but then they switch mid-season to they own and things get screwed up.

Last summer

Wind tunnels and ‘bad calibration’ have plagued Ferrari for a number of years, and are apparently still causing headaches for the Maranello outfit.

The fabled team moved its entire aerodynamic testing programme to the Toyota facility in Cologne, after concluding that its own wind tunnel at Maranello needed to be rebuilt because it was not producing reliable data.

But Auto Motor und Sport claims that, as development progress with the 2013 Ferrari car seemed to stall recently, the data produced by the Toyota tunnel has also been raising eyebrows.

“It’s a difficult situation,” admitted Simone Resta, the project chief for the Formula 138 car.

“Despite having our own wind tunnel, we are still struggling and are obliged to work abroad,” he is quoted by Italian newspaper La Stampa correspondent Stefano Mancini.

“We hope to resolve it by the end of summer,” added Resta. (GMM)

[timbo]

Well, everybody says Toyota's tunnel is among the best, but I'm still skeptical. Toyota itself was never master of in season development. All can be down to many reasons of course. Anyway, we'll see soon what Ferrari could extract from the upgraded tunnel.

[turbof1]

I also have to place questions about how advanced that tunnel still is. Between the date of Toyota's F1 quitting and the present most if not all f1 teams that own a wind tunnel updated and changed their tunnels extensively. Toyota didn't need to until they began with their lemans programme, and even then the tunnel might have been sufficient for that.

[Huntresa]

I also have to place questions about how advanced that tunnel still is. Between the date of Toyota's F1 quitting and the present most if not all f1 teams that own a wind tunnel updated and changed their tunnels extensively. Toyota didn't need to until they began with their lemans programme, and even then the tunnel might have been sufficient for that.

But didnt they begin with their Le Mans atleast 2-3 years ago ? Prior to Ferrari using it ?

[turbof1]

Oh dear, it has been already that long (though ferrari also used that tunnel in 2011)?

I still don't believe that would have aided the development of the tunnel, not in the direction of f1 anyway. The windtunnel should still be very good one for f1 though, don't get me wrong, but state of the art? No, I believe other tunnels have surpassed it, including ferrari's renovated one.

[Huntresa]

Oh dear, it has been already that long (though ferrari also used that tunnel in 2011)?

I still don't believe that would have aided the development of the tunnel, not in the direction of f1 anyway. The windtunnel should still be very good one for f1 though, don't get me wrong, but state of the art? No, I believe other tunnels have surpassed it, including ferrari's renovated one.

Still not being state of the art doesnt mean it should give wrong numbers on w/e is tested unles it couldnt handle the coanda testing etc but then again Ferrari never rly had issues with the Coanda setup compared to normal aero parts not working but w/e atleast their new Windtunnel works which is gr8.

[F1.Ru]

Another advantages of Ferrari's pull rod arrangement is it act as a flow conditioner & vortex generator and thus it direct turbulent air towards radiators with more force than normal push rod. And as Ferrari is pretty much familiar with this layout so they can develop their car without worrying about front suspension wake and their behavior on the overall car.

it is interesting you can make a drawing of how it works ... ?

If you closely look at the picture you will find that the upper arms are all aligned in such a manner that they are the 1st contact point for the turbulent wake caused by the front wing .... usually all team try to direct these turbulent air over the sidepod by either front wing pillar or by front wing itself. But Ferrari's pull rod suspension take this simple job to another level ....they create such a design where upper arm receive those air and bypass them to the lower and middle horizontal bar. In these process the air turbulent nature and push forward towards the sidepod radiator intake with renewed force due to the vortex generated by going through different layer of arms .... some of them will be spill over the sidepod but at least a handsome amount will be guided towards the radiators. And moreover with this year nose design ...there will be fresh air with stronger velocity which will also directed toward the radiator intake and they will certainly create pulling effect on this front wing wake.

[monsi]

Hmmm .. someone more knowledgeable then me will no doubt comment. But given that suspension is in constant movement, I would have thought a much simpler strategy would be simply to keep the moving suspension well clear of the key air pathways you wanted to keep consistent.

[321apex]

If you closely look at the picture you will find that the upper arms are all aligned in such a manner that they are the 1st contact point for the turbulent wake caused by the front wing .... usually all team try to direct these turbulent air over the sidepod by either front wing pillar or by front wing itself. But Ferrari's pull rod suspension take this simple job to another level ....they create such a design where upper arm receive those air and bypass them to the lower and middle horizontal bar. In these process the air turbulent nature and push forward towards the sidepod radiator intake with renewed force due to the vortex generated by going through different layer of arms .... some of them will be spill over the sidepod but at least a handsome amount will be guided towards the radiators. And moreover with this year nose design ...there will be fresh air with stronger velocity which will also directed toward the radiator intake and they will certainly create pulling effect on this front wing wake.

Wow! Nice story. Fact or fiction?
How do you know?
Do you have data to back this up?

Aero effects are often very bizarre and not so straight forward to predict.
I knew a guy who used to run his modified street Toyota at Bonneville each year. One time he revealed some insight regarding his particular car. Apparently at around 140 mph and above, his vehicle steering logic was reversing itself. When he needed to make a steering correction to the left, he had to remember to move the steering wheel to the right. His car would do nearly 180 mph.

[PhillipM]

He knows because that was the whole ethos Ferrari had behind running it in the first place.