F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

[vtr]

I edited my comparison post, should be back up there soon

- FI has the shortest wheelbase
- all other cars have comparable wheelbases
- McL and Williams have slightly longer 'backs'
- McL and of course FI have a shorter 'front'

Yes, those are the main takes I got. It is really amazing just how shorter the FI seems. The big advantage in having a shorter is supposed to be the weight, isn't it?

[321apex]

Wheelbase dimension and weight balance (thru ballast) are still the typical and easiest means to "tune" F1 race chassis. This year however, the ballast "knob" was diminished by FIA mandating heavier power units, forcing all teams into developing wheelbase calibration.

Nice analysis was done using the pictorial metrics, however let's not assume that this "pictured snapshot configuration" is going to remain unchanged from race to race. I would venture to say that of the whole field, Force India took the opportunity to begin testing with short wheel base car at Jerez.

[miguelalvesreis]

Wheelbase dimension and weight balance (thru ballast) are still the typical and easiest means to "tune" F1 race chassis. This year however, the ballast "knob" was diminished by FIA mandating heavier power units, forcing all teams into developing wheelbase calibration.

Nice analysis was done using the pictorial metrics, however let's not assume that this "pictured snapshot configuration" is going to remain unchanged from race to race. I would venture to say that of the whole field, Force India took the opportunity to begin testing with short wheel base car at Jerez.

Changing the wheelbase length will alter the aero, so I wouldn't venture to say that anyone will change it during the year, less every race.

[vtr]

Changing the wheelbase length will alter the aero, so I wouldn't venture to say that anyone will change it during the year, less every race.

Yes, and the weight distribution is still mandatory, (right?) so changing the wheelbase would also have to be accompanied with ballast changes.
Besides, I think a lot the dimensions of the car are defined in relation to wheel centrelines, so a whole lot would have to change to alter the wheelbase.

[321apex]

Let's agree, that at this stage of the game, the wheelbase remains an open and adjustable issue for each team. All for the basic reason, that F1 platform is a blank slate and this parameter is an important one for team engineers to investigate.

You are right about aero balance. But clearly this year's cars will balance out differently from the typical norm over few previous years. I said "differently" due to different and heavier "powertrain blocks" arranged in different places reducing engineers freedom to add tungsten ballast.

[RZS10]

Wouldn't a change of the wheelbase require completely new or at least heavily modified suspension, changing many aerodynamical parameters resulting in a different airflow? I doubt teams will still fiddle with their wheelbase at this point bearing in mind their current problems with implementing the power unit, the changed wing sizes and the no longer allowed beam wing. It took Lotus a few races to bring a car with a longer wheelbase last year due to the complexity of this task, so it's rather unlinkely the teams will change the wheelbase with only 40 days to go. I think the wheelbases and aero concepts have been fixed quite some time ago.

On topic: I've redone the comparison in two different ways with the high res pics, the white circles all have the same diameter for front and rear, the rear wings all have the same size

method1: aligning them on the rear axle using the center of the white circles as reference https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/141 ... temp2t.jpg
Ferrari .... 3498 mm ....
Mercedes . 3528 mm ....
McLaren .. 3520 mm ....
Williams .. 3563 mm ....
Caterham . 3537 mm ....
F. India .... 3464 mm ....

method2: tried to determine where the axle is on the middle of the car, trying to eliminate the influence of the perspectve) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/141 ... ttempt.jpg
Ferrari .... 3454 mm ....
Mercedes . 3475 mm ....
McLaren .. 3454 mm ....
Williams .. 3488 mm ....
Caterham . 3459 mm ....
F. India .... 3411 mm ....

that method brought them all very close together into a 3,4 meter range ... i just provided the links because it seems unneccessary to post more pics (two sets should suffice ) ... the old conclusion still stands

[RZS10]

how long are the endplates? 650mm?

[vtr]

how long are the endplates? 650mm?

From what I can "understand" from the regulations the rear endplates are 650mm max (50mm max in front of the rear wheel centreline and 600mm max behind it) and the front endplates are 550 mm max (nothing farther than 1000mm ahead of the front wheel centreline and nothing nearer than 450mm ahead of it).

Man, there should be more drawings in that document

[Richard]

I think there could be better reference points for calibrating the photos. The tyres provide a 660mm reference, but they are rounded with black edges that are hard to distinguish.

Using bodywork gives sharper points over longer distances, hence better scaling. I think the best reference is the rule limiting the leading edge of the front wing to 1000 mm from the front wheel centreline. So that means the sharp edge of the front wing endplate is 1000 mm from the front axle, and they are in roughly the same plane so no parallax error. (You might get a bit of error if the front wheels are on tight turn.)

[RZS10]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/141 ... r_orig.jpg

[...]
Red Bull ... 3477 mm .... 5140 mm
*The Red Bull numbers are (even bigger) approximations, given the photographer was not as well positioned (it's not like he had many opportunities to get it right tho ).
[...]

you were fairly close

[Blanchimont]

Thanks for everyone who's measuring and contributing to this thread, great work!

I tried to get some data on how the lens distortion changes the lengths and i simply took a picture of a ruler with a Canon EFS 18-135mm zoom lens at 50mm and 135mm focus length. I then measured the first, the middle and the last 5cm and the middle 20cm. You can clearly see that the pixel lengths differ and that an error in the range of 1,7 to 2 % occurs with the lens mentioned above, when comparing the 20cm length to the average of the two outer 5cm lengths.

If the pictures were made with my camera lens, the wheelbase (20cm length) would be understimated a bit.
Other (fixed focal length) lenses could provide better results with smaller error ranges.

50mm


135mm

[rscsr]

Thanks for everyone who's measuring and contributing to this thread, great work!

I tried to get some data on how the lens distortion changes the lengths and i simply took a picture of a ruler with a Canon EFS 18-135mm zoom lens at 50mm and 135mm focus length. I then measured the first, the middle and the last 5cm and the middle 20cm. You can clearly see that the pixel lengths differ and that an error in the range of 1,7 to 2 % occurs with the lens mentioned above, when comparing the 20cm length to the average of the two outer 5cm lengths.

If the pictures were made with my camera lens, the wheelbase (20cm length) would be understimated a bit.
Other (fixed focal length) lenses could provide better results with smaller error ranges.

50mm
http://imageshack.com/a/img844/6474/ttrj.jpg

135mm
http://imageshack.com/a/img560/607/6bhu.jpg

The Photographers in F1 usually use much bigger focal length. I remember Darren Heath on TRE saying, that he uses 600mm lense with a teleconverter. So I assume at least 1000mm is used. And because of the long lens the distortions are usually really low (and I'd guess that they are correcting distortions automatically, because they have to convert the images anyway)

[RZS10]

Using the rear wing (650mm) gives a wheelbase of 3457mm, using the front (1000mm from the leading edge of the front wing to front wheel centreline) gives 3403mm ... so we might just take the average 3430 ± 27 mm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14134662/rbr2.jpg

[vtr]

Using the rear wing (650mm) gives a wheelbase of 3457mm, using the front (1000mm from the leading edge of the front wing to front wheel centreline) gives 3403mm ... so we might just take the average 3430 ± 27 mm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14134662/rbr2.jpg

Those top views might be the best ones to really make some estimation of those lengths. Great job

[Racer X]

Well from what i could see the McLaren is better then Ferrari and both are better then Williams. then its the rest but we would be foolish to judge the times now since its just basic testing we wont know anything until Qualy time in Australia. That said we wont know race pace till the end of the race. Also it would be foolish to judge right now.... I mean i cant count out Redbull let alone Lotus.

That McLarens rear suspension tho..... awesome.