F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Per
Per
35
Joined: 07 Mar 2009, 18:20
Location: Delft, the Netherlands

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

RZS10 wrote: method1: aligning them on the rear axle using the center of the white circles as reference https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/141 ... temp2t.jpg
Ferrari .... 3498 mm ....
Mercedes . 3528 mm ....
McLaren .. 3520 mm ....
Williams .. 3563 mm ....
Caterham . 3537 mm ....
F. India .... 3464 mm ....

method2: tried to determine where the axle is on the middle of the car, trying to eliminate the influence of the perspectve) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/141 ... ttempt.jpg
Ferrari .... 3454 mm ....
Mercedes . 3475 mm ....
McLaren .. 3454 mm ....
Williams .. 3488 mm ....
Caterham . 3459 mm ....
F. India .... 3411 mm ....

that method brought them all very close together into a 3,4 meter range ... i just provided the links because it seems unneccessary to post more pics (two sets should suffice :D) ... the old conclusion still stands
Great work RSZ! Any idea on the Marussia? They say on their website that the MR03 wheelbase is 3700mm but that would be enormous if true... :/

User avatar
diego1960
1
Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 17:39
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

It does look enormous, doesn't it? Remember that Marussia has less funding, less personel and worse facilities than the leading teams, so the only way to achieve good packaging in the coke-bottle area is by lengthening the car.
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose." - Ayrton Senna

wesley123
wesley123
204
Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

A longer wheelbase car gives more area to generate downforce on and it also gives more room to package your stuff. This obviously has weight as well as structural integrity as a downside
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

User avatar
RZS10
359
Joined: 07 Dec 2013, 01:23

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

A rough estimate gave me ~3695mm for the Marussia - i could use the same method i used on the RBR, FI and Sauber, but i'd need a decent (high res) pic of the car from above ...

RedBull: 3430mm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14134662/rbr2.jpg (pic is one page back)
ForceIndia: 3389mm
Image
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/141 ... eIndia.jpg
Sauber: 3503
Image
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14134662/sauber.jpg

[i have no idea how to embed clickable images or thumbnails or anything, i think that images that are several megabytes big are a problem for mobile users so i embed smaller versions and provide links to the high res ones]
Last edited by RZS10 on 07 Feb 2014, 00:59, edited 4 times in total.

Per
Per
35
Joined: 07 Mar 2009, 18:20
Location: Delft, the Netherlands

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

wesley123 wrote:A longer wheelbase car gives more area to generate downforce on and it also gives more room to package your stuff. This obviously has weight as well as structural integrity as a downside
I realise that, but allow me to abuse and malform a famous Colin Chapman quote: "Adding downforce makes you quicker around the corner, subtracting weight makes you quicker everywhere". Especially in 2014 when all teams are struggling to stay well under the weight limit, it seems to me that adding 250mm to your chassis gives you a tremendous disadvantage.

I imagine the floor will give you more downforce and the better coke bottle shape gives you reduced drag and additional floor efficiency. But while I was very impressed by Marussia's coke bottle when I first saw the car, I am now not impressed at all because they probably owe it to the huge wheelbase. I thought the Marussia had a much better design than the Caterham at first, but now I'm not so sure.

User avatar
hollus
Moderator
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 01:21
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

Blanchimont wrote:Before i make a comparison of the wheelbases of the car i want to discuss what would be the best way to estimate the wheelbase of the cars.
I think the longest regulated distance is from the floor to the top of the engine cover. The shots have to be exactly level, though, to avoid the angle to the camera becoming an issue. Maybe the top of the rear wing to the floor at the rear could be even better, with less parallax and with parallel straight lines available.
Also, can't the wheelbase not be changed to a point just by suspension adjustments? And even change a tiny bit with speed? I'd think that the distance from the front of the front wing end plate to the rear of the rear wing end plate could be a better measurement of car length, or at least more constant.
Just throwing in some ideas. Looking forward to more comparisons!
Rivals, not enemies.

miguelalvesreis
miguelalvesreis
17
Joined: 12 May 2012, 13:38

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

hollus wrote:
Blanchimont wrote:Before i make a comparison of the wheelbases of the car i want to discuss what would be the best way to estimate the wheelbase of the cars.
I think the longest regulated distance is from the floor to the top of the engine cover. The shots have to be exactly level, though, to avoid the angle to the camera becoming an issue. Maybe the top of the rear wing to the floor at the rear could be even better, with less parallax and with parallel straight lines available.
Also, can't the wheelbase not be changed to a point just by suspension adjustments? And even change a tiny bit with speed? I'd think that the distance from the front of the front wing end plate to the rear of the rear wing end plate could be a better measurement of car length, or at least more constant.
Just throwing in some ideas. Looking forward to more comparisons!
Seems a good idea. I would assume the floor to be parallel to the reference plan and would try to get a perpendicular line to the floor, passing on the intersection of the rear wing end plate rear surface with a line parallel to the floor, at the height of the wing fixture, in order to avoid possible flex due to aero forces. Would do the same for the front wing.
With that, one could have the max point for a calibration line (FW2RW).
For the min point for the same calibration line maybe the distance between the top of the tube and the floor (TB2FL)?
And for a 3rd and average point, just to check if it's linear or not, due to distortions induced by the lens (and just because...) the distance between the floor and the top of the engine cover (FL2EC), and achieve something like that

With excel would be simple to have any 4th point in between those or, do the math ;)

Image

PhillipM
PhillipM
386
Joined: 16 May 2011, 15:18
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

Makes you realise what a good job the Force India guys did on those sidepods.

vtr
vtr
7
Joined: 24 Jan 2014, 22:42

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

PhillipM wrote:Makes you realise what a good job the Force India guys did on those sidepods.
What's interesting is that, looking at the "airbox centered" side view comparisons (both mine and RZS10's), the Force India seems to be shorter in front of the airbox, meaning the sidepods are more or less the same size as other cars.
Does that mean that they decided that they don't need as much space to redirect the air around the tires and the sidepods and into the underbody compared to other teams? Or maybe they decided on a shorter monocoque for weight?

PhillipM
PhillipM
386
Joined: 16 May 2011, 15:18
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

I would think they've probably decided on a shorter wheelbase to help get traction and heat into the harder rear tyres this year, gambling on better tyre management over working the aero at the front of the car harder?

mkable1370
mkable1370
4
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 22:29

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

According to Omnicorse, rumor is that all of the f1 cars are over the minimum weight this season, with the Ferrari being the least over-weight. They imply that as a result there is essentially NO BALLAST being used by teams this year. Thoughts?

http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.a ... sovrappeso

tomazy
tomazy
208
Joined: 10 Jan 2006, 13:01

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

Pat Symonds sad this regarding FW36, I uderstand that means Williams is at the minimum weight?
The build of the new car has gone remarkably smoothly,” says Symonds. “But it’s been a challenge to get the car down to the weight limit. It’s been achievable, but it hasn’t been easy because the new power unit is heavier than the outgoing V8.

User avatar
RZS10
359
Joined: 07 Dec 2013, 01:23

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

The official weights are all at 690 or 691 kilograms, at least that's what the teams claim - i wouldn't be surprised if it's not true

mkable1370
mkable1370
4
Joined: 14 Nov 2013, 22:29

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

tomazy wrote:Pat Symonds sad this regarding FW36, I uderstand that means Williams is at the minimum weight?
The build of the new car has gone remarkably smoothly,” says Symonds. “But it’s been a challenge to get the car down to the weight limit. It’s been achievable, but it hasn’t been easy because the new power unit is heavier than the outgoing V8.
I think Symonds is parsing words when he says "its been achievable". Lots of things can be achievable given the right circumstances. For example it could be that making weight can now be "achievable" because the team have replaced the heavier Maldonado with Massa who is one of the lightest drivers in f1.

Vettel weighs 64kg, Gutierrez is 61kg, Massa just 59kg, Button is 70kg, Di Resta 74, Webber 75, Sutil 78kg, Bottas weights 70kg, Maldonado weighs 66kg for example.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/10/i ... -progress/
http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Past ... 20164.html
http://en.espnf1.com/williams/motorspor ... /7746.html

tomazy
tomazy
208
Joined: 10 Jan 2006, 13:01

Re: F1 2014 Car Comparison Thread

Post

You may be right abouth that, Bottas said the folowing in his interwiev:
What training have you done over the winter and when did the 2014 focus start?

I had two weeks holiday straight after Brazil, so it was mid-December when I started to training and focusing on 2014. The training includes a lot of different things, running, cycling, reaction training and also gym work. Due to the new regulations I’ve had to squeeze a bit off my weight, so the training was longer than normal.