2014 too slow? (or not, as the case may be)

[Just_a_fan]

Ps: I miss BMW with their "we produced a 19000 RPM, 905 BHP monster" press releases.

They were great engines and won many titles with them.

Oh, wait, that's not right...

[Pebblestone]

Here's my two cents,

Having a tire supplier who's playing the conservative card certainly won't help this year's contenders to go faster. The performance window of the Pirelli tires should play a major role in regards to how long/fast they can drive before their rubber falls off the cliff. And that's if they have enough with 100 Kg of fuel to push their cars on some circuits

That being said, I'm still pretty confident some teams will find a way to get a bit closer to last year's time sheets by the end of the season.

Edit: typo

[Sevach]

They were great engines and won many titles with them.

Oh, wait, that's not right...

Way to miss the point =D>

I enjoyed getting real numbers and BMW loved to flaunt theirs.

[SectorOne]

They were great engines and won many titles with them.

Oh, wait, that's not right...

Because Williams messed it up on a number of occasions. They had the best engine of the whole field bar the first year.

[Just_a_fan]

It was an attempt at humour. Hence the laughing emoticons at the bottom...

There is a paper by BMW showing the development of their engines - there were some big changes over the lifetime of the engine. Very impressive.

[SectorOne]

My bad, i took it as a bit condescending but i guess the rolling eyes smiley did it for me.

[SectorOne]

Seems like my earlier point is moot. At least when it comes to Mercedes if this is indeed true.

Tobias Grüner F1 ‏@tgruener 6m
Mercedes engine chief Andy Cowell admitted the turbo engines are able to deliver around 700 hp - without ERS. AMuS: http://ams.to/hS

[beelsebob]

So yeh, at least some of this year's cars have 860bhp for a large chunk of the lap... They're definitely not down on power.

Aka, not 100 horses down, 100 horses up.

[RZS10]

check the last two posts here: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... start=5235 it was a hypothetical question and equation

[hollus]

^^^

You guys seen this?

Tobias Grüner F1 ‏@tgruener 6m

Mercedes engine chief Andy Cowell admitted the turbo engines are able to deliver around 700 hp - without ERS. AMuS: http://ams.to/hS

So with the ERS that'll deliver 860hp. That's pretty incredible and could mean the 100hp more rumour flying about could be true...especially since Renault's Rob White admitted that they were getting around 600hp from the ICE unit alone.

Sorry, that's not what i get from this article. The first question is:

"AMUS: Wie stark ist der Verbrennungsmotor, wenn Sie in der Qualifikation volle Power erlauben?
How much power does the ICE have when run at maximum power during qualifying?

Cowell: Keiner wird eine genaue Zahl rausrücken. Alles dreht sich um thermische Effizienz. Der alte V8 war zu 30 Prozent thermisch effizient. Wir wollen auf 40 Prozent mit den neuen Motoren kommen.
No team will publish exact figures, but thermal efficiency is king. The old V8 had an efficiency of 30%, we want to reach 40% with the new engines.

AMUS: Lassen Sie uns folgende Rechnung wagen: Vor 30 Jahren gab es aus 1,5 Liter Hubraum bei fünf bar und 200 Kilogramm Sprit pro Stunde Spitzenleistungen von bis zu 1.400 PS. Da müssten bei halb so viel Benzin pro Stunde ohne den Beitrag des Elektromotors doch 700 PS drin sein?
Let's do the following calculation/estimation: 30 years ago with 1,5l displacement, at 5bar turbo pressure and 200kg/h fuel you could achieve peak powers of 1400hp. With half the fuel flow allowed in 2014 the ICE alone should make 700hp?

Cowell: Korrekt. So kann man rechnen.
Yes, that's how you can calculate/estimate."

For me the first question/answer tells much more than the second, as an efficiency target of 40% and 100kg/h fuel translates to

100kg*42MJ/kg/3600s * 40% = 467kW or 634hp

as an upper limit, assumed they do not use fuel with an energy content of 46MJ/kg or more. The second question sounds like a leading question to me. I wouldn't take this as a sign that Mercedes achieves 700hp from the ICE without the MGUH and MGUK.

Even if 1400HP from 200Kg/h was correct, that's taking the peak figure from the time, when the cars were not really fuel limited and it made sense to design for the peak, and comparing it to the now really fuel limited and hence average-ish figure from 2014. Back then you could get more fuel in if the machanical parts could withstand it. Now the rules, not materials, impose a hard (flow) and a soft (amount) limit.
It is also comparing a figure from an engine likely made to last 10Km with the current engines forced to last for about 2000Km.
German media feeding the German rumor about the German engines at its prime.

[hollowBallistix]

Where do you get 42MJ/kg for the fuel ?

Premium road fuel gives 46MJ/kg, surely the fuel they use in F1 gives out more energy per kilo ?

[beelsebob]

Where do you get 42MJ/kg for the fuel ?

Premium road fuel gives 46MJ/kg, surely the fuel they use in F1 gives out more energy per kilo ?

On the contrary, it's running at much higher pressures, and hence likely to be lower energy density (to prevent knocking).

Remember, premium fuels actually contain less energy than regular ones.

[hollowBallistix]

I thought the knocking was controlled by the OCTANE rating, and that's not directly linked with the Energy Density ?

[beelsebob]

I thought the knocking was controlled by the OCTANE rating, and that's not directly linked with the Energy Density ?

It's directly linked in that the octane is replacing other more volatile compounds in regular fuel. The reason you get less knocking is because the fuel is less willing to explode simply because of pressure and heat, and instead requires a spark even at that very high pressure.

[Pup]

TC suggested 50.5 MJ/kg here...

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 06#p470206

So now we're at 950hp