Ferrari F14T

[Dream Theater]

According to omnicorse.it Ferrari engine would be 12 kg overweight .

Can you please post a link to the article? I can't find it on omnicorse.it.
Thanks.

EDIT, found it: http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/34530/ ... sovrappeso

Briefly, they're saying that all team are really struggling to get into the minimum weight (691kg), and that the teams are more or less 30kg over this limit.

All the overweight is depending on:

- Static tests for the monocoque, which are now more difficult to pass, cost about 5kg (based on a F1 designer's personal confidence).
- Hybrid systems are now weighing much more (25kg from last year ones, now about 60kg).
- The Power Units are heavier than 145kg. For example, the Ferrari's Power Unit, which is one of the lightest PU, is 12kg overwight (I don't know how and where they found this info...).

This is why some teams asked to increase the minimum weight from 691 to 700kg. Ferrari was contrary because they're confident that they'll pull off weight, working on wiring and electic systems.

In the end they say that one of the key area to find performance in 2014 will be the weight reduction.

[atanatizante]

...
- Hybrid systems are now weighing much more (25kg last year's KERS, now the ERS is about 60kg).
...

You are wrong!

Code: Select all

5.4.3 The total weight of the part of the ES that stores energy, i.e. the cells (including any clamping plates) and electrical connections between cells, must be no less than 20kg and must not exceed 25kg.

[Dream Theater]

They wrote "sistemy ibridi" which translated in english is "hybrid systems". So I'm not wrong.
It's quite clear to me that with the term "hybrid system" they're referring to the whole system, and not only to the ES, as you quoted from the regulations.

Anyway, I edit my original post to make it clearer.

[langwadt]

...
- Hybrid systems are now weighing much more (25kg last year's KERS, now the ERS is about 60kg).
...

You are wrong!

Code: Select all

5.4.3 The total weight of the part of the ES that stores energy, i.e. the cells (including any clamping plates) and electrical connections between cells, must be no less than 20kg and must not exceed 25kg.

the is only the ES i.e. "battery", add to that a bigger MGU-K, the MGU-H and the electronics (and cooling) to drive it

[turbof1]

...
- Hybrid systems are now weighing much more (25kg last year's KERS, now the ERS is about 60kg).
...

You are wrong!

Code: Select all

5.4.3 The total weight of the part of the ES that stores energy, i.e. the cells (including any clamping plates) and electrical connections between cells, must be no less than 20kg and must not exceed 25kg.

He isn't wrong. Only the ES - Energy Story or simply the battery- has a limit of 25kg. It doesn't count in the mgu-k, mgu-h and all kinds of connections inbetween.

[miguelalvesreis]

...
- Hybrid systems are now weighing much more (25kg last year's KERS, now the ERS is about 60kg).
...

You are wrong!

Code: Select all

5.4.3 The total weight of the part of the ES that stores energy, i.e. the cells (including any clamping plates) and electrical connections between cells, must be no less than 20kg and must not exceed 25kg.

He could be wrong, sometimes people are! You were!
Really no need to be so harsh!
The one is always right never learn anything new!

[Blackout]

EDIT, found it: http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/34530/ ... sovrappeso

Briefly, they're saying that all team are really struggling to get into the minimum weight (691kg), and that the teams are more or less 30kg over this limit.

All the overweight is depending on:
- Static tests for the monocoque, which are now more difficult to pass, cost about 5kg (based on a F1 designer's personal confidence).
- Hybrid systems are now weighing much more (25kg from last year ones, now about 60kg).
- The Power Units are heavier than 145kg. For example, the Ferrari's Power Unit, which is one of the lightest PU, is 12kg overwight (I don't know how and where they found this info...).
This is why some teams asked to increase the minimum weght from 691 to 700kg. Ferrari was contrary because they're confident that they'll pull off weight, working on wiring and electic systems.
In the end they say that one of the key area to find performance in 2014 will be the weight reduction.

So, many things might be havier than I thought... I assumed somthing between 25 and 30kg for the turbo, 10 kg for each MGU... that would leave 15kg for the ECUs...
The monocoque should be heavier yes, as well as the gearbox and the ancillary parts...

How much do a 2013 or a 2014 weight (without ballast, fuel and driver) ? that's the question...

According to Kiril Varbanov's blog; a bare-stripped F1 car weights about 535 kilograms (Scarbs thinks ''it's just over 520''- no driver, no fuel, no fluids. I assumed it is a 2011-2013 car and I tried to figure out how much a 2014 car would weight, based on these numbers
http://f1framework.blogspot.com/search? ... -results=5

-V8: 95kg (rules)
-Kers: about 30kg (or 27 - (Mercedes)
-ancillary parts: 20kg (Renault)

-Power Unit: 145kg min (rules)
-Battery: 35kg* (Renault)
-ancillary parts: 20kg (Renault)

**rules state that the part which stores energy within the ES must weight between 20 and 25kg and this part is excluded from the 145kg minimum...

The result is: a 2014 car (with a 2013 gear-box) should weight about 590 kilos... but 2014 gear-boxes should be heavier for several reasons IMO, so let's say 600kg : P
Just a guesstimation...

Any thoughts/additional infos/corrections ?

[beelsebob]

The big thing missing from that weight calculation is the ballistic shield for the turbo.

[Blackout]

Yes. 3 or 4 kilos they say...

[tok-tokkie]

It is going to add further to the engineering challenge of this season if the cars are that significantly over the weight limit. This will be yet another area where really worthwhile development can take place. The freeze on changes during the season is unfortunate in this regard.

[RZS10]

If I understood correctly the Ferrari engine doesn't have that shield incorporated into the engine, compared to Mercedes and Renault, so it does not count towards the 145kg weight minimum? Does it give them those few kg extra for other engine parts (making crucial parts more solid?) or does it allow them to go up with the exhaust manifold as some rumors suggested since they have less weight above the COG without that shield? ... or do the power units weigh more than 145kg anyways?

[timbo]

If I understood correctly the Ferrari engine doesn't have that shield incorporated into the engine, compared to Mercedes and Renault, so it does not count towards the 145kg weight minimum? Does it give them those few kg extra for other engine parts (making crucial parts more solid?) or does it allow them to go up with the exhaust manifold as some rumors suggested since they have less weight above the COG without that shield? ... or do the power units weigh more than 145kg anyways?

What I don't understand, is that if it is not included in the engine weight, it would make car heavier. Or simply they don't have it altogether? But how can they if rules demand it?

[RZS10]

If I understood correctly the Ferrari engine doesn't have that shield incorporated into the engine, compared to Mercedes and Renault, so it does not count towards the 145kg weight minimum? Does it give them those few kg extra for other engine parts (making crucial parts more solid?) or does it allow them to go up with the exhaust manifold as some rumors suggested since they have less weight above the COG without that shield? ... or do the power units weigh more than 145kg anyways?

What I don't understand, is that if it is not included in the engine weight, it would make car heavier. Or simply they don't have it altogether? But how can they if rules demand it?

Apparently Ferrari has a different interpretation of the rules claiming that a shield is neither necessary nor mandatory - or at least doens't have to be part of the power unit.
Maybe they don't have a disadvantage when it comes to weight, maybe the PUs weigh more than the minimum 145kg so they are at +-0kg weight wise, but will be able to develop the shield during the season after the engine freeze?

I am surprised that there are no news considering that issue since there was supposed to be a meeting one week ago.

[Jv12]

Ferrari's Turbo casing features a built-in ballistic shield. This according to Ted Kravitz. The debris of the turbo if/ when it fails or explodes, remains contained within the extra ballistic casing. Extra weight on the Turbo, but overall lighter in weight compared to Mercedes & Renault.

[Owen.C93]

I think he said that the casing was designed into the body work and thus isn't homologated with the power unit so they can continue to save weight on it as the seasons go on.