Ferrari F14T

[henra]

Can't they just cool the cables with water (those exist...i mean water cooled cables)? I wonder what would have a worse impact on weight, heavier thicker cables or thinner cooled ones - only if it's possible ofc.

The drawback is that you don't only have to fight the heat but you also lose Voltage (read: Horsepower) which can be significant, depending on the length and resistance of the cables.
In short: Making them thicker will fix the heat issue plus give some extra Watts. My vote would be for making the cables thicker and/or shorter.
Edit: Also a typical source of heat and losses are connectors or plugs. FInding plugs/connectors that can bear >500 amps over an extended period of time and being light weight can also be a challenge.

[RZS10]

Can't they just cool the cables with water (those exist...i mean water cooled cables)? I wonder what would have a worse impact on weight, heavier thicker cables or thinner cooled ones - only if it's possible ofc.

The drawback is that you don't only have to fight the heat but you also lose Voltage (read: Horsepower) which can be significant, depending on the length and resistance of the cables.
In short: Making them thicker will fix the heat issue plus give some extra Watts. My vote would be for making the cables thicker and/or shorter.
Edit: Also a typical source of heat and losses are connectors or plugs. FInding plugs/connectors that can bear >500 amps over an extended period of time and being light weight can also be a challenge.

I believe they would not go below a thickness that would cause losing voltage anyways - but you are probably right, a slight increase in diameter might help to get rid of the overheating issues with a lower weight penalty than adding some kind of cooling system to the cable ... stupid idea

[WillerZ]

Things get more complex if the cables are carrying AC than if they are carrying DC. Look up Litz wire on google or bing for more.

[Mr.G]

I don't think that AC nor skin effect will count in this case. They don't run such high frequencies between MGU-K/H and the ES. This is taken into account in the switching transformers.

I would like to know if they use wires or copper bus bars and screws instead of connectors...

[Cuky]

I am not so sure that this is AC current here. AC can't be stored in batteries, but DC can both be generated by generator units and can spin up already spinning engines (and turbo is always spinning so MGU-H is spinning, just like crankshaft and MGU-K are constantly spinning).
Also, DC can't be transferred far as loses are great, but at short distances like inside F1 car that wouldn't be a problem.

If they generate/run on AC than there would be extra weight from rectifier to change generated AC to DC for storage and than stored DC to AC for usage.

[Mr.G]

I think they run on AC for both MGUs. And they have bi-directional AC/DC converter for charging/discharging the ES.

[WillerZ]

I don't think that AC nor skin effect will count in this case. They don't run such high frequencies between MGU-K/H and the ES.

The MGU-H spins at 125000RPM ≈ 2kHz which implies is a skin depth of ~ 1.5mm in copper, so it could matter…

Rectifying it at the MGU-H actually makes it worse as a full-wave rectifier effectively doubles the frequency.

[WillerZ]

DC can both be generated by generator units

Not really; DC generators (AKA dynamos) have been replaced by AC generators (AKA alternators) in essentially every application because of their greater efficiency and reliability.

[Mr.G]

I don't think that AC nor skin effect will count in this case. They don't run such high frequencies between MGU-K/H and the ES.

The MGU-H spins at 125000RPM ≈ 2kHz which implies is a skin depth of ~ 1.5mm in copper, so it could matter…

Rectifying it at the MGU-H actually makes it worse as a full-wave rectifier effectively doubles the frequency.

They do not need to spin the MGU-H by the same speed as turbo, by the rules they can be geared.

[rscsr]

I don't think that AC nor skin effect will count in this case. They don't run such high frequencies between MGU-K/H and the ES.

The MGU-H spins at 125000RPM ≈ 2kHz which implies is a skin depth of ~ 1.5mm in copper, so it could matter…

Rectifying it at the MGU-H actually makes it worse as a full-wave rectifier effectively doubles the frequency.

They are allowed to use a transmission as long it has a fixed ratio between MGU-H and Turbo.

[WillerZ]

I don't think that AC nor skin effect will count in this case. They don't run such high frequencies between MGU-K/H and the ES.

The MGU-H spins at 125000RPM ≈ 2kHz which implies is a skin depth of ~ 1.5mm in copper, so it could matter…

Rectifying it at the MGU-H actually makes it worse as a full-wave rectifier effectively doubles the frequency.

They are allowed to use a transmission as long it has a fixed ratio between MGU-H and Turbo.

Sure, but are they using that allowance? 125000rpm alternator isn't particularly hard to build; given you already designed suitable bearings to manufacture the turbo in the first place. Any mechanical engineers want to pitch in on the challenge of a transmission one end of which goes at that speed, and the relative weight of not having it at all?

I would expect to see copper tube conductors from the MGU-H with 1-2mm walls to keep the weight down.

[langwadt]

I don't think that AC nor skin effect will count in this case. They don't run such high frequencies between MGU-K/H and the ES.

The MGU-H spins at 125000RPM ≈ 2kHz which implies is a skin depth of ~ 1.5mm in copper, so it could matter…

Rectifying it at the MGU-H actually makes it worse as a full-wave rectifier effectively doubles the frequency.

your 2kHz is for a 2 pole motor, we don't know how many poles the motors have and they will have run a much higher
frequencies to modulate the power output

with a three phase rectifier the output is almost DC, though I doubt they will have simple rectifier it'll be done synchronously
in the controller

[rscsr]

I'm no electrical engineer so I wondered what would happen if you are using flat cables?

[Mr.G]

They referring to skin effect. In that case you need to use litz wire.

All the wiring depends on how the MGUs are build.If they have their own AC/DC converters then the link between MGUs and ES will be DC. If they are pure AC the linking will be AC too. I think they are running the first option.

I'm not sure how the limitations are, but they can decrease the current in the wires by boosting up the voltage. However, they probably run on the maximum allowed voltage.

[.poz]

Are silver cables permitted ? Silver conducts electricity slightly better than copper