McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

[Pup]

It would essentially be an upper deck to the diffuser itself.

Unfortunately not. For it to be a working extension of the diffuser, it has to draw air from underneath the car.

Yeah and it does as Scarboni shows in his video.

I'm referring to shady's sketch/comment; not to what Mclaren are doing.

[stefan_]

And part 4:

[Adam_S]

So, if the downforce reduces as the suspension compresses, what happens if the car hits a bump when it's going round a corner right on the limit?

[Rikhart]

So, if the downforce reduces as the suspension compresses, what happens if the car hits a bump when it's going round a corner right on the limit?

Good question, this car will be fun to drive on the bumpier corners.

[beelsebob]

So, if the downforce reduces as the suspension compresses, what happens if the car hits a bump when it's going round a corner right on the limit?

Yep, that could be the fatal flaw – anticipate very unstable McLarens breaking into the first corner at hungary.

[RZS10]

They've been driving/jumping over curbs in fast corners before, that surely affects the floor/diffuser and they were fine... so i guess it won't have such an impact, will it?

And for the braking zones: they would presumably still have more downforce than the other cars, so having a bit less of more downforce is still better even if the downforce levels aren't stable ... maybe ^^

[Pup]

I'm going to guess that the gaps opening (or do they close - it really depends on the geometry) isn't a huge factor. The suspension moves very little to begin with, and the change in the gaps between suspension members will be a tiny fraction of that. And there will already be a gap at the bottom, between the wishbone and diffuser, so the gap change there will be also be small, as a percentage of the total.

[shady]

Unfortunately not. For it to be a working extension of the diffuser, it has to draw air from underneath the car.

Yeah and it does as Scarboni shows in his video.

I'm referring to shady's sketch/comment; not to what Mclaren are doing.

Thanks!

So it wouldnt aid the work the main diffuser is doing?

[timbo]

I'm going to guess that the gaps opening (or do they close - it really depends on the geometry) isn't a huge factor. The suspension moves very little to begin with, and the change in the gaps between suspension members will be a tiny fraction of that. And there will already be a gap at the bottom, between the wishbone and diffuser, so the gap change there will be also be small, as a percentage of the total.

When FOM shows onboard cameras looking at suspensions one can see that they actually move quite noticeably.
Question of course is about the airflow around the suspension part. There must be a great deal of turbulence and opening and closing the gap between the wishbones might induce oscillations in the flow.

Interesting thing that if downforce and drag coefficients reduce at the compressed suspension than in the corner the downforce would be higher at the unloaded (inner) side of the car. Should improve stability, I guess.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U0fub3_DSU

Nice to see he draws the shape I was talking about earlier in this thread, and seems to disagree with the "mushroom" description.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 62#p482962


(my drawing was very crude, but was to demonstrate the "flaps" are not very big, and the profile is quite "fat")

[RZS10]

Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U0fub3_DSU

Nice to see he draws the shape I was talking about earlier in this thread, and seems to disagree with the "mushroom" description.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 62#p482962

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/610 ... rofile.png
(my drawing was very crude, but was to demonstrate the "flaps" are not very big, and the profile is quite "fat")

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/610 ... ofile2.png

He's just drawing what he heard they probably look like, each time he draws them they look different

[ringo]

The suspension helps the diffuser by lowering the pressure behind the car. It seems these will work better at medium to high speed. I don't think they will be very effective at low speeds.
They are basically a blockage to air flow in the right place. It's just changing the atmospheric condition behind the diffuser by separating flow.
Changes in ride height wont do much since the inner connecting points don't move. As the arms angle downward or upward the outer points will have the biggest movement. However the diffuser is most effective at the outer edges, so the contribution from the suspension arms will be a lesser percentage that it gives in the middle of the diffuser.

It's a nice easy to copy concept still, I think we'll see all teams with them by the first high downforce track.

[aleks_ader]

It's a nice easy to copy concept still,

Come on! Listen yourself. I hope that was sarcasm.. Modifications on Suspension kinematics and its setup, diffusor and rear crash struture changes (crashtests), middle difuzor aero changes, rads exits, exhaoust and monkeyseat implementation, rear wing (expecially endplates strakes and additional cutout section), front wing (enplates), sidepods configuration, changed cooling regime, maybe even front suspension tweeks for mechanic reason. Pretty changes all you could imagine. Now if your car fall out comfort zone to do quick implementaion or you had no time to propertly test it is BIG chance to make car even worse. So smoe teams will had no option to try this solution next year and stick to the plan like they intended in original concept before season...

I think we'll see all teams with them by the first high downforce track.

Agree. A least there some teams will probably go for lost DF when the drag penalty is "no big" deal.

[i70q7m7ghw]

It's a nice easy to copy concept still, I think we'll see all teams with them by the first high downforce track.

Nobody has pickup points even close to what McLaren have done. It would require at the least a redesigned gearbox casing and rear crash structure which would require a crash test, just to get the pick-up points in the right place. I would imagine the change to the suspension geometry would also cause some issues.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U0fub3_DSU

Nice to see he draws the shape I was talking about earlier in this thread, and seems to disagree with the "mushroom" description.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 62#p482962

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/610 ... rofile.png
(my drawing was very crude, but was to demonstrate the "flaps" are not very big, and the profile is quite "fat")

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/610 ... ofile2.png

He's just drawing what he heard they probably look like, each time he draws them they look different

Really? If I stole one of the wishbones, cut it in half and showed you the profile you would probably just say "ah that's just a one off wishbone, the ones they are using probably aren't like that".

People really need to let go of things in these technical threads. It's like how every duct on a car some how is linked to feeding the diffuser. Or every little sound the engine makes is some kind of new magic engine map that blows the diffuser. Seriously, drop the flavour of the month crap, it's getting old.