Red Bull RB10 Renault

[Gridlock]

It's not impossible they're simply to blow air into the car when it stops (and CO2 if required...) rather than being something 'used' during running?

[turbof1]

Newey talking about the issues:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112538

I'm not entirely convinced Renault's cooling is that particularily larger then the other engines. We've seen enough pictures by now that concerning packaging Renault teams are pretty neat. I rather think Newey is being picky on things that are big and clumsy, as always.

[bonjon1979]

I assumed it was something burning.

It seems you were right:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112538

The bodywork next to the exhaust was catching fire - so Newey was a bit greedy when it came to the 'shrink wrapping' of the car. I guess it's easy to criticise the designer but perhaps the exhausts are giving off more heat than Renault thought.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Newey talking about the issues:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112538

I'm not entirely convinced Renault's cooling is that particularily larger then the other engines. We've seen enough pictures by now that concerning packaging Renault teams are pretty neat. I rather think Newey is being picky on things that are big and clumsy, as always.

But he didn't say the Renault's cooling demands were any larger than anyone else.

[turbof1]

He didn't explicitly said it no. I do feel like that he meant that, talking in such superlatives with a not to the other engines. Could be wrong of course.

[fritticaldi]

italiaracing.net is reporting the same "Newey" article as autosport. It will be interesting to see if Renault can turn this hard ware and soft ware situation around. Newey admits the aero was designed aggresively to optimize performance. Remember how badly Dr. Helmut Markko and CEO Mateschitz slammed Magneti Marelli for the alternator failures? I have a feeling this Renault problem could escalate into a media frenzy with an inevitable separation between Red Bull and Renault.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

He didn't explicitly said it no. I do feel like that he meant that, talking in such superlatives with a not to the other engines. Could be wrong of course.

I see how one could infer he's saying the Renault PU cooling requirement is large/r than others, I'm just not sure that's what he meant, I could be wrong. I think he's just trying to put pressure on Renault to get sorted their issues.

Another interesting point is that Newey confirms the radiator area of the 2014 cars is double that of 2013, which is what put pressure on him to in regards to the tight packaging that led to their Jerez debacle but also how different the Ferrari PU is with it's much lower cooling requirement/ and or the new Mezzo Technologies rads being used.

Back to the RB10, it seems Newey believes theres a power advantage to be had with the Renault if they can get the charge air cool enough. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Del Boy]

Very interestingly he mentions plenum air temperature. If you watch the video of the Torro Rosso around Jerez it sounded as if the engine was 'knocking' which is the cause of over temperature charge air. I didn't hear it on the Red Bull videos but then again I only saw it in one video due to lack of running.

[Juzh]

italiaracing.net is reporting the same "Newey" article as autosport. It will be interesting to see if Renault can turn this hard ware and soft ware situation around. Newey admits the aero was designed aggresively to optimize performance. Remember how badly Dr. Helmut Markko and CEO Mateschitz slammed Magneti Marelli for the alternator failures? I have a feeling this Renault problem could escalate into a media frenzy with an inevitable separation between Red Bull and Renault.

TBH all renault cars had magneti marelli alternator failures during 2012. It can't be pinned solely on RB overdoing it.

[bonjon1979]

He didn't explicitly said it no. I do feel like that he meant that, talking in such superlatives with a not to the other engines. Could be wrong of course.

I see how one could infer he's saying the Renault PU cooling requirement is large/r than others, I'm just not sure that's what he meant, I could be wrong. I think he's just trying to put pressure on Renault to get sorted their issues.

Another interesting point is that Newey confirms the radiator area of the 2014 cars is double that of 2013, which is what put pressure on him to in regards to the tight packaging that led to their Jerez debacle but also how different the Ferrari PU is with it's much lower cooling requirement/ and or the new Mezzo Technologies rads being used.

Back to the RB10, it seems Newey believes theres a power advantage to be had with the Renault if they can get the charge air cool enough. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

If they need the charge air cooler, it would suggest that they've been too ambitious with their packaging. I think this is really significant, particularly because Jerez was around 10-14 degrees for the test. If they're not getting their charge air cool enough at that temperature then they have a considerable way to go to achieve the right temperature for the likes of Malaysia and Bahrain during the season.

[Richard]

Debate about future RB engine supplier has been moved to the team thread http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... ead#unread

[dren]

Will we see much larger openings at the rear for cooling flow at the next test? Maybe they will stick with the internal packaging and try to increase the delta T in the radiators with more flow. I don't know how easy it will be to rearrange internal packaging. Also, they may end up taking a larger hit on intake temps to keep other circuits adequately cooled.

And as others have stated, I can't see the Renault power unit being that much more demanding on the cooling side of things compared to the competition.

[Blackout]

Very interestingly he mentions plenum air temperature. If you watch the video of the Torro Rosso around Jerez it sounded as if the engine was 'knocking' which is the cause of over temperature charge air. I didn't hear it on the Red Bull videos but then again I only saw it in one video due to lack of running.

The way he explains it, implies that RBR can play with the charge air today IMO: "It has all sorts of advantages if we can get there, but it is not easy to achieve." he implies ''if we hit those targets, we have more power/more efficency''... he could have said ''if we dont attain those numbers, we get knocking etc''

[dren]

Very interestingly he mentions plenum air temperature. If you watch the video of the Torro Rosso around Jerez it sounded as if the engine was 'knocking' which is the cause of over temperature charge air. I didn't hear it on the Red Bull videos but then again I only saw it in one video due to lack of running.

The way he explains it, implies that RBR can play with the charge air today IMO: "It has all sorts of advantages if we can get there, but it is not easy to achieve." he implies ''if we hit those targets, we have more power/more efficency''... he could have said ''if we dont attain those numbers, we get knocking etc''

Are they really getting knocking when the engine is DI? The fuel they use is most likely closely matched to intake temperatures.

[Holm86]

Very interestingly he mentions plenum air temperature. If you watch the video of the Torro Rosso around Jerez it sounded as if the engine was 'knocking' which is the cause of over temperature charge air. I didn't hear it on the Red Bull videos but then again I only saw it in one video due to lack of running.

The way he explains it, implies that RBR can play with the charge air today IMO: "It has all sorts of advantages if we can get there, but it is not easy to achieve." he implies ''if we hit those targets, we have more power/more efficency''... he could have said ''if we dont attain those numbers, we get knocking etc''

Are they really getting knocking when the engine is DI? The fuel they use is most likely closely matched to intake temperatures.

Sure engines can knock even with DI. But I really doubt that he can hear knocking on at video. Knocking can be difficult to hear. Especially on a race car that makes so much noise. And has so many different noises.