2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[wuzak]

Is it just me who thinks the Mercedes has a completely different engine note?? It sounds much much deeper than the Ferrari or Renault engine to me. Im talking acceleration here not off throttle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtHDxhWxqq0

It is a deeper note because it has 100hp more

Very much doubt that. If it were the case, the Mercedes teams would be the fastest in a straight line. It was Ferrari, in fact, that were fastest on the straight - 336km/h compared to 314km/h in last year's race.

[Juzh]

http://imgur.com/DClAXtx.jpg

Some misunderstandings :

- From the picture above MGU-H could transfer power directly to MGU-K in an unlimited amount.
- The 4MJ/lap limit refers to the power which is coming from the ES -battery- only, right?
- Then the only limit in energy transfer from MGU-H to MGU-K is the 120kW power limit.
- So the additional power coming from MGU-H, let`s say 30kW for 20 sec/lap, could be used apart from those 120kW and 33,3 sec/lap generated by MGU-K?

-So we could infer that this season (or maybe until 2016) will be (beyond the usual stuffs) a battle between PU manufactures who gets the most powerful MGU-H and also which one could be used more time over a lap?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Not sure what you mean here
5. Possibly

[RicerDude]

.., delete

[rscsr]

http://imgur.com/DClAXtx.jpg

Some misunderstandings :

- From the picture above MGU-H could transfer power directly to MGU-K in an unlimited amount.
- The 4MJ/lap limit refers to the power which is coming from the ES -battery- only, right?
- Then the only limit in energy transfer from MGU-H to MGU-K is the 120kW power limit.
- So the additional power coming from MGU-H, let`s say 30kW for 20 sec/lap, could be used apart from those 120kW and 33,3 sec/lap generated by MGU-K?

-So we could infer that this season (or maybe until 2016) will be (beyond the usual stuffs) a battle between PU manufactures who gets the most powerful MGU-H and also which one could be used more time over a lap?

4. You still will be limited by the 120kW because the power of the motor is limited

[Bredd]

Is it just me who thinks the Mercedes has a completely different engine note?? It sounds much much deeper than the Ferrari or Renault engine to me. Im talking acceleration here not off throttle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtHDxhWxqq0

It is a deeper note because it has 100hp more

Very much doubt that. If it were the case, the Mercedes teams would be the fastest in a straight line. It was Ferrari, in fact, that were fastest on the straight - 336km/h compared to 314km/h in last year's race.

Actually top speed depends on more than just engine power it depends on drag. Downforce and drag are normally traded off against each other. The Ferrari could have less drag.

[WhiteBlue]

I read a reasonable comment from Horner this morning. He said that Renault have he least competence in terms of the energy recovery technology which is so important this year. Renault decided seven years ago that recovery would be the responsibility of the team and not of the engine manufacturer. This decision was valid until last year when Red Bull still had their own KERS to look after. For the turbo formula all ERS is integral part of the power unit and Renault has to play catch up to Merc and Ferrari who have professionally looked after the technology much earlier than Renault. Particularly Mercedes has a long history as the supplier of McLaren with KERS. So it would not surprise me when Merc comes out of the race for performance and reliability ahead of Ferari and Renault. The first half of testing very much points into this direction.

[Abarth]

[...] Mercedes uses a single entry turbine where the others uses a twin entry turbine. I recon this could have something to do with the sound. I don't really know why they choose a single entry turbine.
[...]

With my remark I mistakenly used the word firing order instead of firing intervals.

You are not going to have even firing intervals with a V6 60° with shared crankshaft Pins (which is what I expect for a racing engine). Also, the configuration of the crankshaft (120° spacing colock- or counterclockwise) doesn't change a Thing.

60-180-60-180-60-180 (eg. 1-6-2-4-3-5) would be the interval.
Of course you can have also 240-60-180-60-180 with still even intervals in one bank, but it would be odd...

With single entry turbine, you could have 120-120-180-120-120-60 (eg 1-2-3-4-5-6), the banks would be uneven 120-120-480 in that case. Still odd, but maybe can this be ironed out with different lenghths of the exhaust manifold pipes.

[Abarth]

[...] So it would not surprise me when Merc comes out of the race for performance and reliability ahead of Ferari and Renault. The first half of testing very much points into this direction.

Is there any evidence that Ferrari / Sauber / Marussia had troubles with ERS?

[wuzak]

Very much doubt that. If it were the case, the Mercedes teams would be the fastest in a straight line. It was Ferrari, in fact, that were fastest on the straight - 336km/h compared to 314km/h in last year's race.

Actually top speed depends on more than just engine power it depends on drag. Downforce and drag are normally traded off against each other. The Ferrari could have less drag.

Well yeah, but 100hp less would require a lot less drag.

[tuj]

The Ferrari engine is the most compact laterally and uses an air-water-air intercooler, therefore it can run significantly smaller sidepods, thus reducing drag. Also, don't forget that top speed is often also an indicator of a lack of down-force in F1.

[Tommy Cookers]

.....You are not going to have even firing intervals with a V6 60° with shared crankshaft Pins (which is what I expect for a racing engine). .....
60-180-60-180-60-180 (eg. 1-6-2-4-3-5) would be the interval. ....... .

60 deg ??

[321apex]

[...] Mercedes uses a single entry turbine where the others uses a twin entry turbine. I recon this could have something to do with the sound. I don't really know why they choose a single entry turbine.
[...]

With my remark I mistakenly used the word firing order instead of firing intervals.

You are not going to have even firing intervals with a V6 60° with shared crankshaft Pins (which is what I expect for a racing engine). Also, the configuration of the crankshaft (120° spacing colock- or counterclockwise) doesn't change a Thing.

60-180-60-180-60-180 (eg. 1-6-2-4-3-5) would be the interval.
Of course you can have also 240-60-180-60-180 with still even intervals in one bank, but it would be odd...

With single entry turbine, you could have 120-120-180-120-120-60 (eg 1-2-3-4-5-6), the banks would be uneven 120-120-480 in that case. Still odd, but maybe can this be ironed out with different lenghths of the exhaust manifold pipes.

Whatever, these engines have 90 deg bank angles and use shared crankpin cranks.
The fact remains, that these engines are inherently UNEVEN firing V6's and they could use different firing orders from brand to brand, which may explain the sound difference. Someone has mentioned turbine housing difference between single (shared) or double header pipe entry, I would think that would have a small effect on sound but can not be excluded.

[ringo]

Months ago it was thought there would be none because of increased weight and packaging. Now that they're on the cars the argument now is that they are there for nothing. haha.

Were you not among those who didn't believe that the boost could be controlled by the MGU-H?? Which is now confirmed. I believed that wastegates would be installed. But only for security reasons. I still don't believe they are necessary for operating the PU's under normal conditions.

Nope, it could be, i just said that the heat rate under the engine cover would increase because of the backpressure of the MGUH. So i had a preference for using the Wastegate and accept the loss of energy at high engine speeds.

[Blackout]

I read a reasonable comment from Horner this morning. He said that Renault have he least competence in terms of the energy recovery technology which is so important this year. Renault decided seven years ago that recovery would be the responsibility of the team and not of the engine manufacturer. This decision was valid until last year when Red Bull still had their own KERS to look after. For the turbo formula all ERS is integral part of the power unit and Renault has to play catch up to Merc and Ferrari who have professionally looked after the technology much earlier than Renault. Particularly Mercedes has a long history as the supplier of McLaren with KERS. So it would not surprise me when Merc comes out of the race for performance and reliability ahead of Ferari and Renault. The first half of testing very much points into this direction.

But not everything Horner says here is true. RBR had it's own Kers ? The Renault teams (including RBR) and Ferrari had a very similar Kers. Only the RBR battery was different.
What is changing exactly this year ? I though Renault and Ferrari will continue using Magneti Marelli MGUs and PCUs and Renault says it will produce its battery in house...

[mrluke]

I read a reasonable comment from Horner this morning. He said that Renault have he least competence in terms of the energy recovery technology which is so important this year. Renault decided seven years ago that recovery would be the responsibility of the team and not of the engine manufacturer. This decision was valid until last year when Red Bull still had their own KERS to look after. For the turbo formula all ERS is integral part of the power unit and Renault has to play catch up to Merc and Ferrari who have professionally looked after the technology much earlier than Renault. Particularly Mercedes has a long history as the supplier of McLaren with KERS. So it would not surprise me when Merc comes out of the race for performance and reliability ahead of Ferari and Renault. The first half of testing very much points into this direction.

But not everything Horner says here is true. RBR had it's own Kers ? The Renault teams (including RBR) and Ferrari had a very similar Kers. Only the RBR battery was different.
What is changing exactly this year ? I though Renault and Ferrari will continue using Magneti Marelli MGUs and PCUs and Renault says it will produce its battery in house...

Its bs from Horner, Mercedes have been planning this car for 4 years, I dont believe RBR only realised at Jerez that the ERS integration is going to be quite important. They could / should have made the changes 2-3 years ago in anticipation, would be surprised if they didnt.