2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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Del Boy
Del Boy
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Joined: 15 Feb 2010, 00:03

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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langwadt wrote:
SiLo wrote:
Blackout wrote:It's me or the Merc and Mclaren seem to rely mainly on the Kers in the pit lane ?
I'm wondering if they are practicing using ERS to run through the pit lane so that they can save fuel for the race. Every little counts.
I don't see how it could save them anything. All the energy still has to come from the fuel, electric power used in the pit lane is just less electric power to use on the track
It won't be a great deal of fuel saved but because the of gear selected (first) ICE is not at a very high efficiency km/litre. It's got me thinking about how the pit lane speed limiter will work?

mrluke
mrluke
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Joined: 22 Nov 2013, 20:31

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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321apex wrote:
mrluke wrote:
JimClarkFan wrote:Jenson seems to be implying that the Mercedes has lots more rear downforce compared to other cars
From the video he seems to say that Mercedes probably aren't struggling for DF due to their laptime.

I think all you can read into that is that JB doesnt feel he has enough DF to match the laptime done by Mercedes.
Downforce has many uses.
So then do you think hem means "grip in the corner" or "putting power down" ?????

If grip in the corner, then McLarens butterfly susp hepling their diffusor is useless or he siply lies to protect this technology form being copied.
If "power down" then Mercedes did not provide McLaren with the same sophisticated system they are using themselves.
He does not go into anywhere near that much detail, just states that Mercedes lap time indicates they arent struggling for downforce.

He doesnt say that when he was following them they had much more grip on turn in, or mid corner, or that they could put the power down quicker.

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iotar__
7
Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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Mercedes is pushing performance and Renault is trying to put everything together and run, Lotus said they were at 10% of what Merc did in terms of preparations. There will be no time during GPs - different tracks, different tyres, cars will change. When McL/Ferrari had problems in tests recently they still were running a lot and reliability was good. Now Renault teams won't have enough numbers to squeeze optimal base set up, engine maps (will they be stuck with them?) or driver's understanding of the car, plus all fuel saving tactics.

They can forget about first 3 races, Bahrain - not enough time, Barcelona - updates, then the odd ones - Monaco, Canada. Season may as well start in Silverstone. [Are dates for mid-season tests set, I couldn't find anything, Barcelona seems earliest possible, then GB with rain.]

Ferrari might catch up, be reliable and out-fuel Merc with their lighter but unsafe, death-trap, no-turbo-cover design.

piast9
piast9
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Joined: 16 Mar 2010, 00:39

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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Del Boy wrote:It won't be a great deal of fuel saved but because the of gear selected (first) ICE is not at a very high efficiency km/litre. It's got me thinking about how the pit lane speed limiter will work?
Additionally the ICE uses fuel even during idling when the car is stationary. The savings will be tiny but every drop of the fuel counts in 2014.

321apex
321apex
12
Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 16:57

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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piast9 wrote:
Del Boy wrote:It won't be a great deal of fuel saved but because the of gear selected (first) ICE is not at a very high efficiency km/litre. It's got me thinking about how the pit lane speed limiter will work?
Additionally the ICE uses fuel even during idling when the car is stationary. The savings will be tiny but every drop of the fuel counts in 2014.
I concur with that. Running in the pit lane on electricity makes perfect sense in terms of fuel efficiency. Misfiring racing engines are not only wasting fuel but are also not operating in their preferred band so inherently are inefficient. Additionally the speed control stability and quality is worse with misfiring ICE as compared with precision of electric drive.

What no one mentioned, is also the moment car moves away following drop from the jacks. Under electric power, this can be accomplished much smoother putting less shock thru clutch and rest of drivetrain enhancing durability of important systems.

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Gridlock
30
Joined: 27 Jan 2012, 04:14

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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Well originally they were going to be forced to run electric-only in the pits so it's not surprising if they can.

I'm really nervous about how quiet the cars are, they sound good but the soundtrack this year is going to be mostly crowd IMO :(
#58

langwadt
langwadt
35
Joined: 25 Mar 2012, 14:54

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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321apex wrote:
piast9 wrote:
Del Boy wrote:It won't be a great deal of fuel saved but because the of gear selected (first) ICE is not at a very high efficiency km/litre. It's got me thinking about how the pit lane speed limiter will work?
Additionally the ICE uses fuel even during idling when the car is stationary. The savings will be tiny but every drop of the fuel counts in 2014.
I concur with that. Running in the pit lane on electricity makes perfect sense in terms of fuel efficiency. Misfiring racing engines are not only wasting fuel but are also not operating in their preferred band so inherently are inefficient. Additionally the speed control stability and quality is worse with misfiring ICE as compared with precision of electric drive.

What no one mentioned, is also the moment car moves away following drop from the jacks. Under electric power, this can be accomplished much smoother putting less shock thru clutch and rest of drivetrain enhancing durability of important systems.
I'd buy the smoother launch but not fuel save, compare a few times 3 seconds of idle plus ~20 seconds of rough running with 1.5 hour at full boot

mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
0
Joined: 10 Jan 2013, 13:16

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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321apex wrote:
mrluke wrote:
JimClarkFan wrote:Jenson seems to be implying that the Mercedes has lots more rear downforce compared to other cars
From the video he seems to say that Mercedes probably aren't struggling for DF due to their laptime.

I think all you can read into that is that JB doesnt feel he has enough DF to match the laptime done by Mercedes.
Downforce has many uses.
So then do you think hem means "grip in the corner" or "putting power down" ?????

If grip in the corner, then McLarens butterfly susp hepling their diffusor is useless or he siply lies to protect this technology form being copied.
If "power down" then Mercedes did not provide McLaren with the same sophisticated system they are using themselves.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the regulations doesn't allow Mercedes to provide inferiour engine package (engine, ERS, all the components, etc) to the customer teams. At least, Toto said that in October 2013. "We are in modern times so there is no such thing as different specs [of engine] and different specs are not allowed by the regulations anyway. The support of Mercedes is there [for McLaren] as it is for anybody else."

Pup
Pup
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Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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They can't have different specs, since that would mean more than one homologated engine, but that doesn't mean that Mercedes couldn't still keep the best engines for themselves. Every part has a tolerance, and one can imagine that they'd use the parts with the least deviation to build their own engines, and the parts that are closer to the limit of the allowed tolerance would go to their customers. Of course, who gets those engines might change depending on the standings at any given time.

The only way around that is if the engines are handed out at random, like the tires.

myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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Another scenario is that Mercedes mastery of the interlinked suspension is paying dividends this year. I believe they're also running more rake than McLaren so their diffuser and aero package, whilst using different solutions, may be working even better.

I guess we'll see in Australia when we get to see the true pace of the cars and can compare sector times and speed down the straight.

Pup
Pup
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Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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Bahrain roundup - Mercedes, Mercedes, Mercedes...

Combined times:

Pos Driver Team Time Gap
1. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m33.283s
2. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m34.263s +0.980s
3. Kevin Magnussen McLaren-Mercedes 1m34.910s +1.627s
4. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m34.957s +1.674s
5. Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1m36.445s +3.162s
6. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m36.516s +3.233s
7. Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1m36.718s +3.435s
8. Felipe Massa Williams-Mercedes 1m37.066s +3.783s
9. Esteban Gutierrez Sauber-Ferrari 1m37.180s +3.897s
10. Valtteri Bottas Williams-Mercedes 1m37.328s +4.045s
11. Sergio Perez Force India-Mercedes 1m37.367s +4.084s
12. Felipe Nasr Williams-Mercedes 1m37.569s +4.286s
13. Pastor Maldonado Lotus-Renault 1m38.707s +5.424s
14. Daniil Kvyat Toro Rosso-Renault 1m38.974s +5.691s
15. Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull-Renault 1m39.837s +6.554s
16. Kamui Kobayashi Caterham-Renault 1m39.855s +6.572s
17. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m40.224s +6.941s
18. Adrian Sutil Sauber-Ferrari 1m40.443s +7.160s
19. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Renault 1m40.472s +7.189s
20. Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1m41.670s +8.387s
21. Marcus Ericsson Caterham-Renault 1m42.130s +8.847s
22. Max Chilton Marussia-Ferrari 1m42.511s +9.228s
23. Robin Frijns Caterham-Renault 1m42.534s +9.251s
24. Jules Bianchi Marussia-Ferrari no time

Distance by driver

Pos Driver Team Laps Km
1. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 174 941
2. Valtteri Bottas Williams-Mercedes 171 925
3. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 169 914
4. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 161 871
5. Esteban Gutierrez Sauber-Ferrari 151 817
6. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 141 763
7. Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 137 741
8. Kevin Magnussen McLaren-Mercedes 127 687
9. Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 126 681
10. Marcus Ericsson Caterham-Renault 102 552
11. Adrian Sutil Sauber-Ferrari 89 481
12. Felipe Nasr Williams-Mercedes 87 470
13. Pastor Maldonado Lotus-Renault 85 460
14. Kamui Kobayashi Caterham-Renault 83 449
15. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Renault 77 416
16. Sergio Perez Force India-Mercedes 76 411
17. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 73 395
18. Robin Frijns Caterham-Renault 68 368
19. Felipe Massa Williams-Mercedes 65 351
20. Daniil Kvyat Toro Rosso-Renault 62 335
21. Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull-Renault 43 232
22. Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 26 140
23. Max Chilton Marussia-Ferrari 21 113
24. Jules Bianchi Marussia-Ferrari 8 43

Distance by team

Pos Team Laps Km
1. Williams 323 1748
2. Mercedes 315 1704
3. McLaren 296 1601
4. Ferrari 287 1553
5. Caterham 253 1369
6. Sauber 240 1298
7. Force India 213 1152
8. Toro Rosso 139 752
9. Red Bull 116 627
10. Lotus 111 600
11. Marussia 29 156

Distance by engine manufacturer

Laps Km
1. Mercedes 1147 6207
2. Renault 619 3350
3. Ferrari 556 3009

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mikeerfol
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Joined: 20 Apr 2013, 22:19
Location: Greece

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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Pup wrote: Pos Driver Team Time Gap
1. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m33.283s
2. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m34.263s +0.980s
3. Kevin Magnussen McLaren-Mercedes 1m34.910s +1.627s
4. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m34.957s +1.674s
I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was the grid line-up when it comes to Row 1 and 2 in Melbourne...

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RZS10
359
Joined: 07 Dec 2013, 01:23

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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It would be easier if the roundup was in proper tables ...

@pup: i could not contact you via pm feel free to copy (add 'g's) those into your post if you want to, don't want to "steal" your work
"Combined times:
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14134662/1.JPG[/im]
Distance by driver:
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14134662/2.JPG[/im]
Distance by team:
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14134662/3.JPG[/im]
Distance by engine manufacturer
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14134662/4.JPG[/im]"

[some proper use of the forum background colour, not for magic texts :D]
Last edited by RZS10 on 23 Feb 2014, 20:34, edited 1 time in total.

Pup
Pup
50
Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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No probs, I just did a copy paste so you certainly wouldn't be stealing from me...
RZS10 wrote:It would be easier if the roundup was in proper tables ...

@pup: i could not contact you via pm feel free to copy (add 'g's) those into your post if you want to, don't want to "steal" your work
"Combined times:
Image
Distance by driver:
Image
Distance by team:
Image
Distance by engine manufacturer
Image"

321apex
321apex
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Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 16:57

Re: 2014 Testing - Bahrain 19-22 Feb

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Pup wrote:They can't have different specs, since that would mean more than one homologated engine, but that doesn't mean that Mercedes couldn't still keep the best engines for themselves. Every part has a tolerance, and one can imagine that they'd use the parts with the least deviation to build their own engines, and the parts that are closer to the limit of the allowed tolerance would go to their customers. Of course, who gets those engines might change depending on the standings at any given time.

The only way around that is if the engines are handed out at random, like the tires.
I did not have "the engine" in mind. Rather the electric power delivery or absorption.
Software is proprietary correct?

Well, need I say more? It could be a small code difference, or perhaps utilization in programming of an existing function that only MB knows about. Software code would be impossible to police.

I run a business and to this day I am not certain, that the Adwords utility I use takes my money in an honest way for each click of "some customer". I have no way to verify this besides just believing that it does. How much is Google worth?