2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[Cold Fussion]

MERCEDES AMG F1 ‏@MercedesAMGF1 8m
This is due to a greater amount of power and slightly less downforce. More power + less downforce = higher top speeds #FastFacts

Mercedes say they are up on power vs last year..

It depends on how they view power, average power or peak power.

Interesting idea, lets try your suggestion in the "equation" included in the tweet.

Lower peak power + less downforce = higher top speeds.

No, im not convinced thats right.

Don't forget that they were more often than not, had their top speed limited by the gearing. This year their top speed shouldn't be limited anywhere outside of Monza.

[vtr]

Don't forget that they were more often than not, had their top speed limited by the gearing. This year their top speed shouldn't be limited anywhere outside of Monza.

And the top speed is limited by the space the car has to reach that speed, which is very important.
If a team put the Monza ratios in most other tracks, the only thing that would happen is they would be reaching the end of the straight far from the redline in 7th gear and going slower than if they were using the specific gears for that track (lowering gear ratios decreases acceleration, especially with the "peaky" engines of 2013). That would be a huge problem this year if the engine's power band wasn't as flat.
I can't imagine there would be much increase in top speeds last year with lower ratios.

[Cold Fussion]

Don't forget that they were more often than not, had their top speed limited by the gearing. This year their top speed shouldn't be limited anywhere outside of Monza.

And the top speed is limited by the space the car has to reach that speed, which is very important.
If a team put the Monza ratios in most other tracks, the only thing that would happen is they would be reaching the end of the straight far from the redline in 7th gear and going slower than if they were using the specific gears for that track (lowering gear ratios decreases acceleration, especially with the "peaky" engines of 2013). That would be a huge problem this year if the engine's power band wasn't as flat.
I can't imagine there would be much increase in top speeds last year with lower ratios.

Last year the problem with the gearing is that non DRS gearing compromised the top speed with the DRS open.

[myurr]

Last year the problem with the gearing is that non DRS gearing compromised the top speed with the DRS open.

That is a good point, and it hopefully means that DRS this year will be much less effective as the ratios won't be as compromised.

[wuzak]

Don't forget that they were more often than not, had their top speed limited by the gearing. This year their top speed shouldn't be limited anywhere outside of Monza.

And the top speed is limited by the space the car has to reach that speed, which is very important.
If a team put the Monza ratios in most other tracks, the only thing that would happen is they would be reaching the end of the straight far from the redline in 7th gear and going slower than if they were using the specific gears for that track (lowering gear ratios decreases acceleration, especially with the "peaky" engines of 2013). That would be a huge problem this year if the engine's power band wasn't as flat.
I can't imagine there would be much increase in top speeds last year with lower ratios.

Already 20km/h in Bahrain (336km/h vs 314km/h).

To put that in perspective, last year top speeds were 340km/h at Monza.

[Juzh]

Last year the problem with the gearing is that non DRS gearing compromised the top speed with the DRS open.

That is a good point, and it hopefully means that DRS this year will be much less effective as the ratios won't be as compromised.

Exactly the opposite. DRS slot has been increased from 50 to 70mm for 2014, which is significant in itself but there's another catch. While pre-2014 cars would just bounce off the limiters in DRS mode, 2014 and beyond cars will keep accelerating hard with that extra gearing headway.

[piast9]

^^ That's what I am afraid too. That the DRS will be MUCH more effective and the overtakes will be ridiculous.

[321apex]

Last year the problem with the gearing is that non DRS gearing compromised the top speed with the DRS open.

That is a good point, and it hopefully means that DRS this year will be much less effective as the ratios won't be as compromised.

Passing Renault cars may not require DRS.
I am being funny I know.

But seriously, DRS was helpful in facilitating passing for cars that were faster per lap, but straights were too short to complete a pass from limited drafting alone. This year, once all cars become competitive the DRS will once again come in even more handy if indeed it will further reduce drag.

[myurr]

Exactly the opposite. DRS slot has been increased from 50 to 70mm for 2014, which is significant in itself but there's another catch. While pre-2014 cars would just bounce off the limiters in DRS mode, 2014 and beyond cars will keep accelerating hard with that extra gearing headway.

The slot increase is just because of the change in size of the wing, the effect of the gap is designed to remain about the same. I agree with the limiter no longer being an issue, but they will instead be being starved of fuel due to the fuel flow rate limit. With less aerodynamic drag to shed in the first place; the car without DRS constantly accelerating as well due to the flat power delivery and non-compromised gearing; there being less wake from the car in front (skinnier wing, less downforce, but that also means the car behind can follow more closely); I am hopeful that your scenario does not play out. Either way it will definitely have a different relative effect on the chasing car and I'm sure the FIA will adapt their DRS zone strategy.

Another advantage of the fixed gear ratios is that the teams shouldn't have cause for complaint were the FIA to modify the DRS zone mid weekend, e.g. shortening it if it's too effective. It will no longer affect the ratios being nominated.

[motobaleno]

Exactly the opposite. DRS slot has been increased from 50 to 70mm for 2014, which is significant in itself but there's another catch. While pre-2014 cars would just bounce off the limiters in DRS mode, 2014 and beyond cars will keep accelerating hard with that extra gearing headway.

I agree with the limiter no longer being an issue, but they will instead be being starved of fuel due to the fuel flow rate limit. With less aerodynamic drag to shed in the first place; the car without DRS constantly accelerating as well due to the flat power delivery and non-compromised gearing;

I don't see your reasoning here. when you reach top speed it's because your max power equals the total drag so if your max power is limited by fuel flow or by anything else is irrelevant.
what juzh meant can be exemplified simply: let'assume that pure drag reduction from DRS in a given circuit gives you a theoretical 20 km/h (it's just a number its real value is not relevant)...last year after 10 km/h increase you hit limiter. this year without this problem you can gain all the 20 km/h (of course given enough straight distance: on this FIA could act).
besides, the car without DRS is not constantly accelerating of course because its velocity does not saturate because of rev limiter but simply because its drag (not reduced by drs) equals its max power before the car behind with open drs...(of course we suppose equal power engines....we are not talking of renault powered cars )

[WhiteBlue]

The main point isn't the impact on DRS or gearing. The thing that many people did not want to see is the huge power these turbo engines can squeeze out of so much less fuel. That is an engineering marvel. A shame that we did not get to see the four cylinder engines. I'm very keen to compare what Porsche will wring out of their V4 with even 20% less fuel than the F1 engines are allowed. I bet if the original 4-cyl. furmula had been allowed to stand we would be nearer to 900 bhp top brunt.

[myurr]

You'll have the same 8th gear in Monaco as you would in Monza, so on most straights these cars will be constantly accelerating never quite making it to the equilibrium point. With DRS you'll just be accelerating a little bit more quickly.

[321apex]

You'll have the same 8th gear in Monaco as you would in Monza, so on most straights these cars will be constantly accelerating never quite making it to the equilibrium point. With DRS you'll just be accelerating a little bit more quickly.

I doubt if you will be able to engage this 8th gear at Monaco for any significant distance.

[myurr]

The main point isn't the impact on DRS or gearing. The thing that many people did not want to see is the huge power these turbo engines can squeeze out of so much less fuel. That is an engineering marvel. A shame that we did not get to see the four cylinder engines. I'm very keen to compare what Porsche will wring out of their V4 with even 20% less fuel than the F1 engines are allowed. I bet if the original 4-cyl. furmula had been allowed to stand we would be nearer to 900 bhp top brunt.

Completely agree. Many were quick to criticise, rubbished any suggestion of exceeding the power of last years cars, and thought we'd be seven plus seconds off last years times. Given their speed the engine in the Merc at least can't be far off last years car and may well exceed it, and the car certainly looks quick enough. Put softer tyres on it, push to the limit, take ALL the fuel out (not just most of it), and add in the developments that will be introduced by the time the Bahrain GP swings round and we would likely see this years Merc on broadly the same pace as last years.

Given all the changes that is a truly incredible achievement, and I'm sure they won't be the only team up at the sharp end.

[myurr]

You'll have the same 8th gear in Monaco as you would in Monza, so on most straights these cars will be constantly accelerating never quite making it to the equilibrium point. With DRS you'll just be accelerating a little bit more quickly.

I doubt if you will be able to engage this 8th gear at Monaco for any significant distance.

Which kind of demonstrates the point. There's no way they'll get to 8th in Monaco DRS or not. Plenty of other circuits where they'll only just be reaching it without DRS and with DRS they'll just get a little further round the rev band. Other circuits they could end up reaching the limiter (or hitting equilibrium due to fuel flow limits reducing the power) without DRS with DRS adding little beyond that.

Two things would surprise me - DRS being more effective and (if it is) the FIA not reacting mid weekend to correct for it.