2014 Testing - Bahrain 27 Feb - 2 Mar

[diemaster]

Those are not the top speeds man, those are the average speed on the lap.

thx

do you have any information about of top speeds?

[Pup]

Do you guys think Mercedes will run at 90% the first few races (considering all these problems)...?

Stop worrying, they will be fine. We have no idea how serious a given problem is, just that they decided something needed adressing. For all we know this is the gear box they have been using since day 1 of testing.

I hope you're right, let's wait and see what Lewis has to say tonight.

Merc are probably far enough ahead in their testing that they are doing a lot of reliability work - possibly running some components to failure just to find their weaknesses.

[dans79]

Merc are probably far enough ahead in their testing that they are doing a lot of reliability work - possibly running some components to failure just to find their weaknesses.

I think Nico is part of the problem, he hasn't learned how to deal with the press, so he has all the rooftop jumper fans on edge.

[Mui]

+1 Blanchimont.

From the graph can clearly see that Mercedes are faster than the Williams and Mclaren over race distance.

But can also see that this years cars are faster at the beginning of the race than last year, but as the fuel burns off Last Years cars are faster towards the end of the race. Much of this i assume will because of the baseline car being heavier this year. The cars start as approximately the same weight as last year when fuel is taken in to account so it appears these engines are actually putting out more power than previous years?? ...

2013: ~ 750HP and 82HP for 6,67 sec/lap
2014: ~ 650HP and 160HP but for 33,3 sec/lap

Max. power available over a lap:

2013: ~ 830HP for 6,67 sec
2014: ~ 810HP for 33,3 sec

Min. power available over a lap of let`s say 80 sec/lap:

2013: ~ 750HP for 73,33 sec
2014: ~ 650HP for 73,33 sec

1. Could someone get into detail and do the math regarding if 2013 car has had more AVERAGE power available over a lap vs. this years car?
2. With the results from the point above stated could anyone run some numbers and take into account that for this year we have :
a) ~15% less downforce but maybe equally less draggy car without beamwing and a bigger DRS flap (btw. what`s the top speed increase with a raise from 50mm to 70mm now?)
b) an almost the same weight car at the start of the race and ~48kg heavier car at the finish.
c) tyres are harder but hence more durable than last year and least but not last more consistent then before

1. I'll keep it simple and assume that its a straight line from point A to point B and that they're travelling at MAX power i.e max speed from point A to point B for 80 seconds.

The formula should be =minnpower*(laptime-time allowance for KERS usage)/laptime + maxpower*(time allowance for kers usage)/laptime. So for 2013 it would be 750*((80-6.67)/80)+830((6.67)/80)=756.67 and 2014 its 650*((80-33.3)/80)+810*((33.33)/80)=716.9. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.


2. I have no idea i'll leave that to all the other members

[dans79]

Wait, I thought the concept of kers as we have seen it used over the last several years went away? By that I mean no more push to deploy kers, I thought it was supposed to be on all the time, and you engine maps determined how it was used.

[mrluke]

Its quite simple.

For the cars to weigh the same and do the same lap time with harder tyres and less downforce they MUST make more power for more of the time.

Any math is pretty worthless as it is based on a "finger in the air" power figure for the V6T. Nobody knows how much power they are making other than it is a lot. Plenty of people trying to prove that the power units are down on power compared to last year (duh displacement!) but the evidence does not agree.

[atanatizante]

+1 Blanchimont.

From the graph can clearly see that Mercedes are faster than the Williams and Mclaren over race distance.

But can also see that this years cars are faster at the beginning of the race than last year, but as the fuel burns off Last Years cars are faster towards the end of the race. Much of this i assume will because of the baseline car being heavier this year. The cars start as approximately the same weight as last year when fuel is taken in to account so it appears these engines are actually putting out more power than previous years?? ...

2013: ~ 750HP and 82HP for 6,67 sec/lap
2014: ~ 650HP and 160HP but for 33,3 sec/lap

Max. power available over a lap:

2013: ~ 830HP for 6,67 sec
2014: ~ 810HP for 33,3 sec

Min. power available over a lap of let`s say 80 sec/lap:

2013: ~ 750HP for 73,33 sec
2014: ~ 650HP for 73,33 sec

1. Could someone get into detail and do the math regarding if 2013 car has had more AVERAGE power available over a lap vs. this years car?
2. With the results from the point above stated could anyone run some numbers and take into account that for this year we have :
a) ~15% less downforce but maybe equally less draggy car without beamwing and a bigger DRS flap (btw. what`s the top speed increase with a raise from 50mm to 70mm now?)
b) an almost the same weight car at the start of the race and ~48kg heavier car at the finish.
c) tyres are harder but hence more durable than last year and least but not last more consistent then before

1. I'll keep it simple and assume that its a straight line from point A to point B and that they're travelling at MAX power i.e max speed from point A to point B for 80 seconds.

The formula should be =minnpower*(laptime-time allowance for KERS usage)/laptime + maxpower*(time allowance for kers usage)/laptime. So for 2013 it would be 750*((80-6.67)/80)+830((6.67)/80)=756.67 and 2014 its 650*((80-33.3)/80)+810*((33.33)/80)=716.9. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.


2. I have no idea i'll leave that to all the other members

I have something to add :
- at the 1. point we must bear in mind that MGU-H is permanently delivering power to the MGU-K under acceleration, so we should add another 30-40HP maybe more to the 650HP when MGU-K is not delivering the power from ES (those 160HP for 33,3 sec/lap)
- so we should take into account that in fact there are around 680-690HP or more available for 73,33 sec/lap !

[gray41]

Ricciardos fastest lap done on a 21 lap run?

how much is a lap of fuel around Bahrain?

[Artur Craft]

Its quite simple.

For the cars to weigh the same and do the same lap time with harder tyres and less downforce they MUST make more power for more of the time.

Any math is pretty worthless as it is based on a "finger in the air" power figure for the V6T. Nobody knows how much power they are making other than it is a lot. Plenty of people trying to prove that the power units are down on power compared to last year (duh displacement!) but the evidence does not agree.

I agree with you.

The less drag, higher torque and no practical limiter(due to 8th gear) could explain their high top speeds but the less drag comes together with less downforce. That, added to the extra 50kg and the slightly harder tyres, can only mean that if they are really only a second or two away from 2013, it's because of their power.

Point your finger in the air and guess whatever number you want: 600,650HP... In the end, what matters is:

_50 extra weight means, on average of the circuits, an increase of 1,6s in laptime
_given that 2014 Pirelli hard is 1,3s slower than medium, which is 1,2s slower than soft which is 0,5s-0,7s slower than super softs, we have from one extreme to the other a difference of over 3s. So, it's obvious that the whole range can't be much slower than the 2013 ones as the gap between them are already big enough. If the soft and supersofts were much harder than last year, they would be closer to the hards, unless the latters were made to be a lot harder this year which won't be the case as that would cause a lot of wheelspin and would wear them very quickly. Let's suppose the whole range is no more than 0,5s to 1s slower.
_the 15% less downforce will have quite an impact on the more demanding circuits. IIRC, the DDD gave an increase of 5% in downforce and that resulted in around 0,5s improvement in laptime. So, let's go with a 1,5s increase in laptime due to less downforce

So far, the 2014 cars would lose about 3,5 to 4s over the 2013 ones qualifying-wise.

If they can get to within a second or two, that must come from the PU's torque and power. We already know that the cars accelerates much faster out of corners with this year's car. Would that be enough to cover 2s?

Imho, I wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes indeed have 700HP on combustion engine alone and is getting max power of 860HP, given the laptime Rosberg did last week

What remains to be seen is if they will be able to repeat that time. IIRC, last week temperatures were like 18ºC, 20ºC at most. While this week, it's been 25°C - 28ºC

[Blackout]

Ricciardos fastest lap done on a 21 lap run?

No. In a single lap run.

Is it true that RIC lapped between the 1:39 and 1:40 in his 20lap run ?

[Helios]

Ricciardos fastest lap done on a 21 lap run?

No. In a single lap run.

Is it true that RIC lapped between the 1:39 and 1:40 in his 20lap run ?

I think so. AMuS is calling that particular stint a "resurrection" and Button is puzzled by the fact that RIC was 2s/lap quicker. JB says that RIC couldn't get past on the straight, but in T11, a highspeed left-hander. Button says that he has never witnessed something like that and he's impressed by their pace in high speed corners.

[Blackout]

Interesting. Thanks

[Juzh]

Ricciardos fastest lap done on a 21 lap run?

No. In a single lap run.

Is it true that RIC lapped between the 1:39 and 1:40 in his 20lap run ?

I think so. AMuS is calling that particular stint a "resurrection" and Button is puzzled by the fact that RIC was 2s/lap quicker. JB says that RIC couldn't get past on the straight, but in T11, a highspeed left-hander. Button says that he has never witnessed something like that and he's impressed by their pace in high speed corners.

Where did you get that quote from button?

[Helios]

Where did you get that quote from button?

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 63888.html

Trotzdem wurden die Unterschiede zwischen dem McLaren und dem Red Bull schon bei dem kurzen Vergleich bereits deutlich. "Wir sind schneller auf der Geraden. Das wissen sie sicher. Wir sind ein paar Runden hintereinandergefahren. Da ist Daniel auf der Geraden nicht vorbeigekommen. Er hat mich dann in Kurve 11, einem Highspeed-Linksknick, überholt. Das war schon interessant. Sowas habe ich noch nie erlebt. Sie haben also auch ihre starken Bereiche."

[dans79]

that article sounds like the writer took some personal librities........