Plug in hybrid project

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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and the larger motor?
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

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tomislavp4
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006, 17:07
Location: Sweden & The Republic of Macedonia

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That was the bigger motor, the one that fits 18in rims with 225mm width.
The smaller for 16in was 150 hp and 540Nm or something similar....

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tomislavp4
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006, 17:07
Location: Sweden & The Republic of Macedonia

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just checked, sorry :oops: , the above figures should be:
190hp and 760Nm from the larger 18in 30kg motor and
160hp and 700Nm from the smaller 16in 25kg motor

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

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Well the lighter motor has slightly better power/weight ratio at 28Nm/Kg while the larger makes 25.33Nm/Kg, that would be enough to convince me to go for the 25Kg motor, top speed would be slower but it should prove more econmicly viable. I'll try and find some notes on energy to see how much better it will be. Bear in mind you'll be using 2 motors which adds up to around 5Nm/Kg difference.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

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tomislavp4
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006, 17:07
Location: Sweden & The Republic of Macedonia

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However, the motors will be one of the last things to buy, so I expect them to evolve untill I go to buy them, but for now in the design process I´ll go with 17in which will allow me to change to 18´s or 16´s with only minor adjustments later on.

I´ll put post some more ideas (and questions) tomorrow, I have to go to sleep :wink:
Thanks for helping me guys, I really appreciate it.

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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

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I don't think electric motors have much to evolve. I'm assuming that your 2000rpm is a DC brushless, and they're at 95+% efficient already.

Batteries, on the other hand...

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tomislavp4
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006, 17:07
Location: Sweden & The Republic of Macedonia

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Yes it´s a DC brushless. I didn´t meant the efficiency but the weight of the components inside.

Batteries will evolve, everyone is sure about that, not only power to weight but also price, that´s why I want them to be the last piece I buy.

Another question about the cooling is bothering me, would it be better to use air like the solution I posted or should I go for a water colled one?
I know if I choose water it will affect the weigt quite alot but like joseff said lithium ion´s can explode :?

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tomislavp4
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006, 17:07
Location: Sweden & The Republic of Macedonia

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Carlos, I´ve been searching articles about the backbone chassis (I didn´t even know that it existed, thanks) and I like the concept, light, simple...

And about the design, I´m going to do it myself, I´ve been drawing cars since I know of my self :) It´s going to have classic lines over the wheels, rain drop inspired cocpit shape.... I´ll post a scetch soon

Carlos
Carlos
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

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Tomislavp4 -Your description of bodywork reminds me of classic features on legends like the 1938 Bugati Type 57 or 1938 Talbot-Lago - I will look forward to your modernization of some of there ageless, graceful, features. Just a few weeks ago I was admiring a fiberglass reproduction of the 1938 Talbot-Lago - called the Talo - manufactured by TLC Carrossiers of Riviera FLa. USA Also the portfolios from http://www.cardesignnews.com that recall the grace of those fine automobiles. If you should not be familiar with the site - just click under Designers - there is also a Careers tab.

Another site http://www.carbodydesign.com has a column - Latest News - March 22nd - featured the Morgan LifeCar - a concept car for 2008 - you may enjoy looking at some of the drawings - perhaps they have the spirit of some of the styling accents you enjoy.There is also an illustration of the Lotus Elan backbone chassis - without body - buried in the archives.

Edit - The Lotus Indy turbine car and the Lotus 88 F1 car also used a backbone chassis - well sort of a slimline/monocoque/secondary/backbone in The Illustrated Evolution Of The Grandprix & F1 Car by Simon Read - it also has about 16 colour paintings of cars starting with the 1951 Alfa Romeo Type 159 with Fangio driving to the 1997 Ferrari 310B with Michael Schmacher at the wheel - really gorgeous portraits - well worth puchasing this book - think I bought it for about 10USD - sort of off the thread again :wink:
Last edited by Carlos on 28 Mar 2007, 22:02, edited 2 times in total.

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

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dp cars http://www.dpcars.net used a back bone and is working on a composite chassis as well

as for batteries my time on solar car has tought me alot you must have a battery protection system with LI or Nickel batteries or you will kill them quickly. Also there must be a balancing system or you will see a big decrease in capacity or a fire neither of which is fun.

Li batteries can be purchased from http://www.batteryspace.com if you call you can get a price discount.
We used the LG chem A size batteries and made our own modules and packs

Also if you can deal directly with Kokam you can also get a discount ( find some one who is Korean)
we used these a few years ago they have a zinc tab that must be welded not solder


batteries are still pretty expensive Ive helped built numerous $10k battery packs. The 1000 cycles will most likely never be reached there are always problems under volt over volt temp that will destroy them quickly

if areo is important to you read the book "The Leading Edge" its mostly solar car focused but full of good information

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tomislavp4
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006, 17:07
Location: Sweden & The Republic of Macedonia

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Thanks for the links!
In my previous posts I was talking about the "devolopers kit" batteries from a123 systems - http://www.a123systems.com/
But as I said before I´ll wait a litle bit with the batteries...

As I´m not so good with electricity I may ask someone for a help with the packs.... I´ll just stick to the design/engineering thing...

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

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tomislavp4 wrote:Thanks for the links!
In my previous posts I was talking about the "devolopers kit" batteries from a123 systems - http://www.a123systems.com/
But as I said before I´ll wait a litle bit with the batteries...

As I´m not so good with electricity I may ask someone for a help with the packs.... I´ll just stick to the design/engineering thing...
then i strongly suggest having some one build a protection system for you

A lithium battery fire is next to impossible to put out

for soem chassis ideas check out http://www.opencortex.org/ its focused more on solar cars but might be a starting point

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tomislavp4
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006, 17:07
Location: Sweden & The Republic of Macedonia

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Back with more questions... :)
Does anyone know which aluminium alloy they use in the lotus elise chassis? Or, what about audi? Which one suits this application best :roll:

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tomislavp4
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006, 17:07
Location: Sweden & The Republic of Macedonia

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Find it, sorry, I should digg longer next time before I ask you guys :oops:
It´s 6063

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tomislavp4
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006, 17:07
Location: Sweden & The Republic of Macedonia

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What do you think is the minimal configuration to run FloWorks simulation on a whole car?

Few days ago I ran simple simulation to check the airflow around the batteries but it said not enough ram or something :?
I expected this but with more complex parts :oops:

Currently i have a laptop which is slow like hell (1,8Ghz, 512mb ram)
I´m thinking of buying AMD athlon 64 x2 6500+ (2,8Ghz, 2Gb cache and 2000Mhz buss) and 2Gb RAM. Do you think it can handle the job?