Red Bull RB10 Renault

[jz11]

IMHO that elements purpose is solely to hold the front end of the floor up, and not keep it fixed at certain distance to the drivers tub (AFAIR there was even a regulation allowing certain amount of flex upwards?), basically it's a piece of "string", designed not to stretch, but at the same time be able to compress and let the front end of the floor absorb a hit on a curb or similar

The stay is supposed to prevent the floor flexing upwards. It's supposed to be a compression member, not a tension member.

where and who says it is there for compression? look, the rules even say - it may be present if they are rigid, but if the floor can pass the test without that element, it doesn't have to be rigid any more, and doesn't need to be there for the test

so I still think it is somewhat of a safeguard against the edge of the floor deflecting downwards too much under high speed - heavy aero load conditions

[Robbobnob]

The Stay is there to prevent downward deflection of the T tray beyond a limit.

As people have clearly stated, the curb riding causes high energy inputs into the car through the suspension. If not controlled, these frequencies will transfer through the suspension pick up points to a certain extent.

Canterleaved structures have natural frequencies, and a T-tray can be simplified to being a canteleavered beam. The stay will be there to act in tension only to restrict the downwards deflection of the beam in modal vibration.

Interestingly the stay is not attached at the very end of the t-tray, an antinode and the place that will exibit the highest displacement under the 1st fundamental mode of vibration. It is however situated very close to the 2/3 point on the beam a node and a point of zero displacement during the 2nd fundamental mode of vibration.

This would suggest that the stays primary purpose is to limit downwards deflection in the 1st mode only however the last 1/3 of the tip would still be free to oscillate downwards in the 2nd mode.

Now these natural frequencies can be tuned by adjusting the mass and position of the mass along the canterleaved structure. There is clear evidence that the Red Bull T-tray is metallic, where most other teams have predominantly carbon structures. There are photos which show the metallic part of the T -tray was varied amongst the various GP, essentially fine tuning the behaviour of the T-tray in harmonics for each specific track. There was Thermal imaging footage of Webbers car with a Very large heat spot during one of the GP FP sessions which would suggest that they were in essence attempting to tune the displacement behaviour and they were experiencing too much which caused aggressive heating.

Now here is the interesting part, even though the stay is preventing downwards oscillation, it isnt preventing upwards, allowing the t-tray to deflect upwards increasing ground clearance. The stay could even be tensioned as to increase the upwards deflection experienced, again by tuning the natural frequencies of the stay with that of the T-tray.

Photos for reference.

http://i.imgur.com/9exltwP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8NmPFvR.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj27 ... ula-1-.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a308/ ... bd3ff4.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-m-33N39kgag/U ... pic8.jpgp.


An article with a somewhat prophesied description of the red Bull T-tray.

http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/33275/ ... nel-t-tray

[PhillipM]

How do you want to preload the tea tray properly if it's very flexible? It would be visibly bent...

Not if you build it bent to start with....and the structure providing the stiffness could also be mainly internal with a skin over the top.

[Chuckjr]

"...attempting to tune the displacement behaviour and they were experiencing too much which caused aggressive heating."

Working to grasp what's happening here.

What does "attempting to tune the displacement behaviour" mean?

Was the heat in the tray you mentioned from the oscillations generated by the t-tray acoustically resonating like a (for example) clarinet reed, thus causing heat build up from the bending metal? The drill tuning holes remind me of vibraphone bars which sometimes are tuned by drilling holes in the underside -- to change the resonant frequency of the bar.

Do heat pockets (you said they did not want these) cause distortion of the metal and/or distortion of air flow (expansion)?

[Robbobnob]

"...attempting to tune the displacement behaviour and they were experiencing too much which caused aggressive heating."

Working to grasp what's happening here.

What does "attempting to tune the displacement behaviour" mean?

Was the heat in the tray you mentioned from the oscillations generated by the t-tray acoustically resonating like a (for example) clarinet reed, thus causing heat build up from the bending metal? The drill tuning holes remind me of vibraphone bars which sometimes are tuned by drilling holes in the underside -- to change the resonant frequency of the bar.

Do heat pockets (you said they did not want these) cause distortion of the metal and/or distortion of air flow (expansion)?

I was more referring to heat generated by friction from the road surface. If the maximum displacement of the t-tray downwards was too large then there would be interference with the track.

Yes that is essentially what Red Bull are doing, tuning the mass displacement to change the resonant frequency and response at the resonance frequency by using holes and most likely different weighted constructions.

I wouldn't expect a significant heat generation by the resonance, not below 2000 Hz at least.

It is only my guess based on what I have seen, but perhaps Red Bull use the vibrations to trip the bounday layer on the underside of the plank?
From what I am seeing, Im not expecting any significant upwards displacement, though one would expect it to be greater than the 5 mm requirement by the FIA

[SidSidney]

http://i.imgur.com/UaC8N0R.jpg

Those air inlets in the sides of the floor... I think they were on previous cars, but what purpose do they have?

[Owen.C93]

http://i.imgur.com/UaC8N0R.jpg

Those air inlets in the sides of the floor... I think they were on previous cars, but what purpose do they have?

Just vortex generators.

[atlantis]

maybe Venturi effect?

[idfx]

The engines that Red Bull broke the tests will be used ? Or new engines?
If redbull to break all their engines in a day, the regulation can guide on what solution?
Thanks

[mkable1370]

The engines that Red Bull broke the tests will be used ? Or new engines?
If redbull to break all their engines in a day, the regulation can guide on what solution?
Thanks

As tempting as that might be to think about the Bulls breaking multiple engines in a day (sorry, I'm no Red Bull fan), it probably wouldn't be possible to break more than one or two in a day, what with the significant amount of time required to change-out an engine these days. But, conceivably with some very bad luck a team could blow through their engine allotment in a couple of race weekends and then be in a very bad position for the remainder of the season...

[bonjon1979]

The engines that Red Bull broke the tests will be used ? Or new engines?
If redbull to break all their engines in a day, the regulation can guide on what solution?
Thanks

New engines. Everyone starts the season with 5. It is more complicated than that with regards to which parts you can change etc. But basically, you get 5 lumps.

[basti313]

The engines that Red Bull broke the tests will be used ? Or new engines?
If redbull to break all their engines in a day, the regulation can guide on what solution?
Thanks

As tempting as that might be to think about the Bulls breaking multiple engines in a day (sorry, I'm no Red Bull fan), it probably wouldn't be possible to break more than one or two in a day, what with the significant amount of time required to change-out an engine these days.

For Mercedes it took about 12h to change the engine. So if you break your engine in FP2 you are likely not to run in the Qualli...so we should not talk about the engines, the batteries are the big problem. I think a lot of teams will have the problem at the end, because the forced quick discharging after an accident destroys the batteries...maybe not the first, but the second does.

[beelsebob]

For Mercedes it took about 12h to change the engine. So if you break your engine in FP2 you are likely not to run in the Qualli...so we should not talk about the engines, the batteries are the big problem. I think a lot of teams will have the problem at the end, because the forced quick discharging after an accident destroys the batteries...maybe not the first, but the second does.

As has been stated by many teams, the time it takes to perform these tasks in testing is in no way indicative of the time it takes on a race weekend. Mercedes indicated that they could probably do all the tasks around 3 times faster, if they weren't being super-extra-careful to investigate everything along the way.

[munudeges]

They're going to take a long time to change that will impact on a race weekend. That's the point.

[beelsebob]

They're going to take a long time to change that will impact on a race weekend. That's the point.

I think you may have failed at reading. They are not going to take anywhere near as long as people here are asserting they will. The time we have observed them taking so far has been far in excess of the actual time they will take to change on a race weekend.