Red Bull RB10 Renault

[Per]

For Mercedes it took about 12h to change the engine. So if you break your engine in FP2 you are likely not to run in the Qualli...so we should not talk about the engines, the batteries are the big problem. I think a lot of teams will have the problem at the end, because the forced quick discharging after an accident destroys the batteries...maybe not the first, but the second does.

As has been stated by many teams, the time it takes to perform these tasks in testing is in no way indicative of the time it takes on a race weekend. Mercedes indicated that they could probably do all the tasks around 3 times faster, if they weren't being super-extra-careful to investigate everything along the way.

That would still be 4 hours. The time between the end of FP3 and the start of Q1 is usually 2 hours.

[basti313]

For Mercedes it took about 12h to change the engine. So if you break your engine in FP2 you are likely not to run in the Qualli...so we should not talk about the engines, the batteries are the big problem. I think a lot of teams will have the problem at the end, because the forced quick discharging after an accident destroys the batteries...maybe not the first, but the second does.

As has been stated by many teams, the time it takes to perform these tasks in testing is in no way indicative of the time it takes on a race weekend. Mercedes indicated that they could probably do all the tasks around 3 times faster, if they weren't being super-extra-careful to investigate everything along the way.

I did not read that for the engine swap. I read they did it as fast as possible to get the car running again.
And the problem is, that they can not work over night on a race weekend because they have no night crew like during the test. So even if they can do an engine swap in 6h they will run into problems.

[Owen.C93]

For Mercedes it took about 12h to change the engine. So if you break your engine in FP2 you are likely not to run in the Qualli...so we should not talk about the engines, the batteries are the big problem. I think a lot of teams will have the problem at the end, because the forced quick discharging after an accident destroys the batteries...maybe not the first, but the second does.

As has been stated by many teams, the time it takes to perform these tasks in testing is in no way indicative of the time it takes on a race weekend. Mercedes indicated that they could probably do all the tasks around 3 times faster, if they weren't being super-extra-careful to investigate everything along the way.

That would still be 4 hours. The time between the end of FP3 and the start of Q1 is usually 2 hours.

But he said FP2 originally.

[munudeges]

I think you may have failed at reading. They are not going to take anywhere near as long as people here are asserting they will.

No, you're failing at comprehension. These engines, and they are a lot more than that, are going to take a long time to change. You have the ICE itself, the battery and electrical system, the computer systems and the integration between the ICE and the electric motor system. The latter is absolutely critical.

The assertions being made are based on the amount of time it's taken in testing and a lot longer than the V8s or even V10s ever did - something concrete in other words. Even if you take lumps off those times you are looking at a sizable amount of a day lost, not just a session. Your assertion that they magically won't take that long on a race weekend is based on nothing concrete of note.

[Chuckjr]

Okay Robbobnob, got it! Thank you.

[humble sabot]

This could be carried into the Engine 2014 thread as it affects all the teams.
Maybe the pertinent question here is tht the disproportionally beleaguered RedBull has a lot to lose if Renault doesn't come through and it really does take 12hrs to mount a new unit. Can you imagine Caterham taking Redbull's race positions simply because they have a better cooled Renault installation?

[basti313]

This could be carried into the Engine 2014 thread as it affects all the teams.
Maybe the pertinent question here is tht the disproportionally beleaguered RedBull has a lot to lose if Renault doesn't come through and it really does take 12hrs to mount a new unit. Can you imagine Caterham taking Redbull's race positions simply because they have a better cooled Renault installation?

Please....forget about cooling. It is not overall cooling and Caterham does not have better cooling.
In fact the problems on day three have been due to too much cooling. The exhaust broke due to cold air producing stress on a welding joint, whicht led to the fire.

[FrukostScones]

This could be carried into the Engine 2014 thread as it affects all the teams.
Maybe the pertinent question here is tht the disproportionally beleaguered RedBull has a lot to lose if Renault doesn't come through and it really does take 12hrs to mount a new unit. Can you imagine Caterham taking Redbull's race positions simply because they have a better cooled Renault installation?

Please....forget about cooling. It is not overall cooling and Caterham does not have better cooling.
In fact the problems on day three have been due to too much cooling. The exhaust broke due to cold air producing stress on a welding joint, whicht led to the fire.

what cars exhaust broke due to too much cool air?

[joseff]

Lotus

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 12#p491155

[FrukostScones]

Lotus

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 12#p491155

In know about that enotsne post, but what has that to do with Red Bull or Caterham cooling or non-cooling problems.

And only because that the exhaust broke because cool air or whatever it doesn't mean that some parts of the PU weren't craving for cooler temps.

[basti313]

Lotus

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 12#p491155

In know about that enotsne post, but what has that to do with Red Bull or Caterham cooling or non-cooling problems.

And only because that the exhaust broke because cool air or whatever it doesn't mean that some parts of the PU weren't craving for cooler temps.

Do you have any real sources for the PU craving for cooler temps?
Even before the tests started people were claiming that the RedBull will be overheating and the same people still claim it...
But now, we can clearly see that the heat problem is related to the MGU H heat sinks which should not get hot at all and the broken exhaust.
Yes the car is smoking when returning to the pits and yes there is always a mechanic with a fire extinguisher present. But this is totally the same for Mercedes or Ferrari and nobody is claiming they have heat problems.

[Maynard G. Krebs]

"nobody is claiming they have heat problems"

So when Red Bull cuts holes in the body work with a saw, what do they say it is for?

[basti313]

"nobody is claiming they have heat problems"

So when Red Bull cuts holes in the body work with a saw, what do they say it is for?

MGU H heat sinks.

[Blackout]

"nobody is claiming they have heat problems"

So when Red Bull cuts holes in the body work with a saw, what do they say it is for?

So they solved their ''big cooling problems'' with just two 10mm wide holes ? that's just a negligeable cooling problem they solved with a temporary solution until they go back to the factory and design a definitive soltuion for Melbourne.

[prince]

"nobody is claiming they have heat problems"

So when Red Bull cuts holes in the body work with a saw, what do they say it is for?

So they solved their ''big cooling problems'' with just two 10mm wide holes ? that's just a negligeable cooling problem they solved with a temporary solution until they go back to the factory and design a definitive soltuion for Melbourne.

When the car runs at full power of 15k RPM and achieves peak torque, for a long duration is when we know if the problems of overheating are conquered or not. For now, there are problems of varying degree and various nature are present.