Wet driver fanboy fest

[turbof1]

If it rains constantly, Hamilton will have the advantage imo. In the past he did show a very good feeling for grip levels. The suzuka race in 2007 and silverstone one in 2008 were utter proof to that.

I so hope it rains. Teams are already pushed to the limit. A factor like this could turn into numerous tactical errors and just all in all a race that is more in the hands of the driver then the team.

[markn93]

If it rains constantly, Hamilton will have the advantage imo. In the past he did show a very good feeling for grip levels. The suzuka race in 2007 and silverstone one in 2008 were utter proof to that.

I so hope it rains. Teams are already pushed to the limit. A factor like this could turn into numerous tactical errors and just all in all a race that is more in the hands of the driver then the team.

Fuji 07 I think it was.

[Juzh]

If it rains constantly, Hamilton will have the advantage imo. In the past he did show a very good feeling for grip levels. The suzuka race in 2007 and silverstone one in 2008 were utter proof to that.

I so hope it rains. Teams are already pushed to the limit. A factor like this could turn into numerous tactical errors and just all in all a race that is more in the hands of the driver then the team.

Hamilton has been inconsistent in the wet or mixed conditions for years now. People still cling onto his early years performances in the wet as a benchmark, yet quickly dismiss Vettel's monza win in torro rosso as a fluke and a one off. While his car was not up to scratch all the time, Hamilton's post 2008 wet races have been sub-optimal to say the least. Spun like 3 times in china 2009, almost blew it in spa 2010 when he was under no pressure from behind, spun in hungary 2011, he also didn't exactly set the world on fire in malaysia 2012 where both RBs were catching him at the end of the race, nor did in brazil. 2013 wet quali sessions were also nothing to write home about.

I don't think there's a single "rain master" driver on the grid currently. Certainly not as it was with senna or schumacher. They're all way too much hit and miss.

[markn93]

Pole spa 2013 'nothing to write home about'. You must have very high standards.

[myurr]

By 2/10 with a car that was clearly rain optimized. Something which then bit them in their backsides heavily during a dry race. Meanwhile Vettel killed opposition in malaysia and brazil by much larger margins.

It's since the switch to Pirelli that he's struggled in the wet, and it usually comes down to tyre life. There have been occasions where he's been unable to get heat into the tyres which can happen to anyone once heat is lost, but usually his struggles have been that he gets good performance for a few laps but then the tyres start overheating or wearing.

[AnthonyG]

If it rains constantly, Hamilton will have the advantage imo. In the past he did show a very good feeling for grip levels. The suzuka race in 2007 and silverstone one in 2008 were utter proof to that.

I so hope it rains. Teams are already pushed to the limit. A factor like this could turn into numerous tactical errors and just all in all a race that is more in the hands of the driver then the team.

Fuji 07 I think it was.

Don't think, be sure, Suzuka wasn't on the calendar in 2007.

[markn93]

I know, was trying to be polite

[el-Magico]

Keep your eyeballs on the Ferrari's..

[Unc1eM0nty]

By 2/10 with a car that was clearly rain optimized. Something which then bit them in their backsides heavily during a dry race. Meanwhile Vettel killed opposition in malaysia and brazil by much larger margins.

It's since the switch to Pirelli that he's struggled in the wet, and it usually comes down to tyre life. There have been occasions where he's been unable to get heat into the tyres which can happen to anyone once heat is lost, but usually his struggles have been that he gets good performance for a few laps but then the tyres start overheating or wearing.

Agreed that tyre temp is everything on the Pirelli's.

I think this season it might be different though, so much torque and so little downforce could make these cars undriveable in the wet.

[Multi21]

If it rains constantly, Hamilton will have the advantage imo. In the past he did show a very good feeling for grip levels. The suzuka race in 2007 and silverstone one in 2008 were utter proof to that.

I so hope it rains. Teams are already pushed to the limit. A factor like this could turn into numerous tactical errors and just all in all a race that is more in the hands of the driver then the team.

Hamilton has been inconsistent in the wet or mixed conditions for years now. People still cling onto his early years performances in the wet as a benchmark, yet quickly dismiss Vettel's monza win in torro rosso as a fluke and a one off. While his car was not up to scratch all the time, Hamilton's post 2008 wet races have been sub-optimal to say the least. Spun like 3 times in china 2009, almost blew it in spa 2010 when he was under no pressure from behind, spun in hungary 2011, he also didn't exactly set the world on fire in malaysia 2012 where both RBs were catching him at the end of the race, nor did in brazil. 2013 wet quali sessions were also nothing to write home about.

I don't think there's a single "rain master" driver on the grid currently. Certainly not as it was with senna or schumacher. They're all way too much hit and miss.

Funny that you mentioned Vettel in monza because the toro rosso was clearly pretty quick at that point of the season; his teammate bourdais was on the second row of the grid at that race; and even though he stalled, once he got going he was doing similar laptimes to Vettel. Also, had hamilton qualified in the top 10 there, I think he would have made it a lot harder for vettel.

[De Jokke]

Had it continued to rain, Lewis would have won it easily. He was catching Vettel like a mad man but then it stopped raining and he had to pit.

[ringo]

Irrelevant anyway, I'm not saying Vettel is better than lewis. All I'm saying is hamilton is still for whatever reason perceived as the second coming when it comes to rain, when in fact his glory days are long gone. People praise his silverstone win, but dismiss Vettel's monza on a number of excuses.

I don't think you are remebering great races he had in the rain in recent times like when he was up against Webber and Alonso and Shumacher at the nurburg ring.
I think you are confusing real wet weather running with mixed conditions as well, which tend to be a tyre temperature crap shoot.
We haven't had a real wet race in a while thanks to charlie whiting stopping the races. And that's the reason why you haven't seen Hamilton in action in the wet. There are many stints where he has been impeccable in the wet in recent times. Maybe he spun later down, but he is really very fast in the wet and that can't be denied.
Vettel is no wet weather specialist. Not with his downforce advantage and with being beaten to the flag by other drivers in the dying laps of wet races. Shumacher and Hamilton i would say are te standout wet weather pilots.
As it relates to this race, i'd rather the race to be dry. So we can see how the cars run under normal conditions.

I also have a hunch redbull will come with a competitive car. I believe even with a half retarded engine, redbull has built a good enough car to podium. I've seen too much domination and jaw dropping abilities from their cars to leave them out of the running.

[Phil]

Irrelevant anyway, I'm not saying Vettel is better than lewis. All I'm saying is hamilton is still for whatever reason perceived as the second coming when it comes to rain, when in fact his glory days are long gone. People praise his silverstone win, but dismiss Vettel's monza on a number of excuses.

I think you are dismissing some of the reasons why Hamilton in the instances you noted where he didn't do all that well in wet conditions. If we take some of his last wet races as an example, I'd argue that his car wasn't always set up optimally compared to other cars. If I recall correctly, a few of those instances portrait mixed conditions on saturday where teams had to decide if they were going to run a dry, mixed or wet set-up during the race. It's a gamble. Which is why, i.e. the Brazilian race, he was at times one of the quickest cars on the track, while during the wet he wasn't. Differing set-ups by different teams.

I rate him quite high in the wet, but of course, during mixed conditions, it is hard for any team to predict the exact conditions during the race, so they need to take a gamble on set-up. Some teams opt for a risky setup (perhaps wet, opposed to dry), some go for a more safe approach. A driver can only do what his setup and car allows him to do.

[basti313]

I don't think you are remebering great races he had in the rain in recent times like when he was up against Webber and Alonso and Shumacher at the nurburg ring.
I think you are confusing real wet weather running with mixed conditions as well, which tend to be a tyre temperature crap shoot.
We haven't had a real wet race in a while thanks to charlie whiting stopping the races. And that's the reason why you haven't seen Hamilton in action in the wet. There are many stints where he has been impeccable in the wet in recent times. Maybe he spun later down, but he is really very fast in the wet and that can't be denied.

I don't remember any wet race after 2008 with Hamilton performing better than his team mate...

Vettel is no wet weather specialist. Not with his downforce advantage

So when Vettel wins it is due to the car? Even against his team mate you are praising in the last post?

and with being beaten to the flag by other drivers in the dying laps of wet races. Shumacher and Hamilton i would say are te standout wet weather pilots.

So when Vettel is not winning it is not due to the car?
And when Ham and Schu win it is also not due to the downforce advantage of their car?

I can not see your point. Ham had one of the biggest downforce advantages ever seen in Formula1 in 2007 and 2008 (MP4/4 and RB7 are similar). But you count him due to the performance in these years as a good rain driver....but when it comes to Vettel he is not a good rain driver though he managed to fight equal cars down in the rain?

As it relates to this race, i'd rather the race to be dry. So we can see how the cars run under normal conditions.

I hope that too. The problems of Renault and Ferrari will be bigger when it is raining, I hope for real competition and not two races in one.

I also have a hunch redbull will come with a competitive car. I believe even with a half retarded engine, redbull has built a good enough car to podium. I've seen too much domination and jaw dropping abilities from their cars to leave them out of the running.

It comes down to the engine. The car will produce its downforce, but the not drivable engine will kill the tires and the straight line pace.

[SectorOne]

I don't remember any wet race after 2008 with Hamilton performing better than his team mate...

What you really should do is make a list. Pick Alonso, Vettel, Button, Hamilton and Massa. (and maybe some more guys)

Then find all the wet races and see who won the most. Then you´ll have your answer.
Psst.... it´s not Vettel. (despite 4,5 years of the best machine)

-
As for your quote, Silverstone 2012, Canada 2011(just of the top of my head) before the accident (you know the moment where the winner of the GP looked to be standing still when Hamilton overtook him in the last corner)