Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2014

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Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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Juzh wrote:
gingernibbler wrote:Gotta agree with djos,
Dan's throttle control was far superb to Seb, best shown in P3 where Seb hit the wall and couldn't deal with the tailwind taking D/F away. Looks like Seb just plants his right foot.

Obviously Redbull will develop a throttle map/ERS harvesting to allow Seb to do what he normally does thus taking the throttle control out of the equation.
Was nice to see and kind of confirmed the rumours of Redbull using throttle maps/Kers harvesting to simulate T/C.

Best throttle control out there looks like Fernando, that Ferrari looks a beast as power comes in
How can you still claim this after an undisputable evidence about Vettel's malfunctioning engine is beyond my understanding.
Easy. vettel's engine malfunctioned during the race. there was no evidence it did during any other session. doesn't mean it might have been compromised all along, but just the same might not have been at all. What's more important: Danny didn't have no problem at all.

So quite easy actually to claim Danny has the upper hand. He had the upper hand all weekend.
And Honeybadger don't care. Honeybadger just slayed a supposed giant. This season will kick ass.
I love this revised f1 setting.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Thunder
Moderator
Joined: 06 Feb 2013, 09:50
Location: Germany

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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Didn't Renault chose the wrong Software for Seb in the Qualifying which led to a almost undrivable Car?
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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Thunders wrote:Didn't Renault chose the wrong Software for Seb in the Qualifying which led to a almost undrivable Car?
They said they picked the wrong software and fixed it for the race. After the second marussia failed, they had to do another lap before starting and Seb said he didn't have any power. The team said that was normal, however. But from
the start, it was indeed clear the car wasn't working properly. But was that really mechanical, like Hamilton's? Doubt it.

During the race, there's little one can do, though. So that was it. The car improving after some laps shows it indeed wasn't a mechanical/technical issue, but software related. It didn't do enough though.

They said the software problem was fixed, before the race start. yet, seb's redbull still wasn't functioning at all, well, during the race atleast.

But seb wasn't getting his *ss handed to him just during the race, it was all weekend.

Now the statement seb was having problems during qualy is i think highly doubtfull. At such a critical moment in 2014, first race, just out of supposed problems, the main goal is to achieve points and perform. There is no room to risk 'playing around'.

If they wanted to play around with possible software setups, they would have done that during practice and come to an early conclusion whether it works or not. If it doesn't work, you don't risk it.

The key importance here is; Danny had no problems, Vettel constantly had. Well, that's what they're trying to make us believe. There are reasons to take Vettel's problems 'with a grain of salt'.

Danny's car showed it worked great. Perfectly one might say. SO there's your standard. That's the setting, that's the setup, that's the software you want or need to use, or atleast fall back upon if something doesn't work right.

Offcourse Danny's car is set-up to the driving style and preferences for Danny, but - it's better having to steer a car that has a setup you aren't used to, then not being able to drive at all because what they 'installed' on your car doesn't work at all.

RedBull isn't a new team for 2014, so they know this. Vettel knows this.
There is simply no way the reigning world champion nor the constructor is stubborngly continuing with something that doesnt work while they have a working solution driving at the very front.
IF it really was a software problem, or 'just a setting', then copy paste and vettel would have a working car like Danny's.

Furthermore, qualy proved the problem vettel was having initially, was vettel himself, and not the car.
Vettel didn't perform at all during qualy- BUT. During Q2, Vettel had the bad luck, even though others did too, to having to lift the trottle when raikkonen frontended the wall.

After that, he also made a mistake, and that cost him time. Vettel did have a working car handed to him, and it was clear
during Q2 that he had a working car. Vettel just couldn't do with the car what Dan did do with the car. It's that simple.

Offcourse the image of a Reigning World Champion getting schooled by fresh Ricciardo is the last thing he could use, so blame it on something else. But we're not having that. If Vettel had a faulty car due to software, it would have been fixed during qualy already. Vettel just couldn't get the car set up to his preferences and desires. It didn't work for him.
Meanwhile, it worked like a charm for Danny.

A frustrated Seb thus wanted something for the race that might 'fix' the problem, but it was a gamble whether it would work or not, and clearly, it didn't work - but it was too late to fix it. That's the software part right there. They gambled off and it didnt work. Had Seb used the software that did work, he would have been run over during the race by his teammate.

But there's no escape. Malaysia, we'll see the same. Danny is going to destroy vettel this year. It's heartbreaking his race was taken from him, but imho, he earned that race and he owned vettel. He'll do the same in Malaysia. Danny kept his head on his shoulders, clean and calm and cool, during his maiden F1 race with RedBull, whilst the reigning 4-time in a row world champion lost it and it was visible and hearable.

I don't believe for a single second there really was a problem with Vettel's car. Vettel underperformed, and they gambled with something that could backfire, and it did.

Apart from that - It's amazing RedBull is right there up the front row on the podium after the winter problems. Didn't expect that at all.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

nacho
nacho
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Joined: 04 Sep 2009, 08:38

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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That last post is just super bonkers.

Jon_S
Jon_S
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Joined: 07 Jun 2013, 12:02

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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Manoah2u, are you implying that Renault is lying when they take the blame for Vettel's faulty software ?

"Basically if you take his entire weekend, in FP1 it was quite a good step from Bahrain [testing], FP2 was OK, FP3 was a step down on driveability, qualifying was a step down [too]. We made it worse and worse and worse," said Taffin.

"We accept we don't have something consistent enough, but we've learned again. It is sometimes difficult to pick these issues with the mapping or the software.

"We worked around this for the race, [but] Sebastian had a loss of full throttle power, which we trace now and we will try to correct for the next race."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112964

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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i'm not implying lying. I am implying they aren't giving the entire truth either.

I mentioned that quite obviously, something indeed was wrong with Seb's car when in the race.

But as of them stating, from FP3 down, Q1,Q2, down, and race, too, then it just doesn't add up
because they HAD a good car, just look at daniel's.

'picking issues with the mapping' is where it just gives away they were trying to give vettel something
experimental, because daniel didn't have the same issue at all. Unfortunately for them, it didn't work.

But again, we did see a functioning RedBull at the last Q2 moment, at the very last moment they could
'save' it, but it was too late; they had the bad luck of running into a crashed raikkonen. Had raikkonen
not crashed, Seb would have made Q3. Barely, but still.

the simple fact is still: Seb had the possibility of a working car to his hands. they opted to go another route.
it still resulted in Daniel walking over seb, like he still did all weekend.

about these press releases; they're making 'statements', but a statement does not have to hold the complete
truth. And history has proven, the truth is not always stated accordingly. There is a difference between lying
and telling the truth.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Juzh
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Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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Ric over Vet all weekend? Except not. Ric was faster in FP1 when vettel was stranded in the pits for almost entire session, then vettel was faster in FP2, then renault themselves said they messed up his engine maps for FP3 and quali. Vettel's car hasn't worked properly troughtout those sessions (also confirmed by horner) and it didn't suddenly fixed itself for Q2. Ric didn't have the measure of Vettel at any point during this race weekend, something which he even admitted himself after FP2. If you think Ric is 2.4s faster than vettel in the wet then there's nothing left to argue about. The fact that you actually go to such lengths of proving your point which was proven to be a bunch of unsupported claims about vettel really says a lot. You seem like a really desperate person, just looking for any means (right or wrong) to discredit someone you don't like.
But feel free to live in this dream world if that's what makes you sleep at night.

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Gridlock
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Joined: 27 Jan 2012, 04:14

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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Maybe they were conservative with Vettel and ran the correct fuelling adjustment? :twisted:
#58

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dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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Looking at the race pace during practice, Seb was easily quicker than Ric. Still ways off from the Mercedes cars, but he was quicker than Ric.
Honda!

Jon_S
Jon_S
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Joined: 07 Jun 2013, 12:02

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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Manoah2u wrote:i'm not implying lying. I am implying they aren't giving the entire truth either.

I mentioned that quite obviously, something indeed was wrong with Seb's car when in the race.

But as of them stating, from FP3 down, Q1,Q2, down, and race, too, then it just doesn't add up
because they HAD a good car, just look at daniel's.
good when it works, and does not have software issues

'picking issues with the mapping' is where it just gives away they were trying to give vettel something
experimental
, because daniel didn't have the same issue at all. Unfortunately for them, it didn't work.
do you have proof of that, or is it just an excuse you are making to explain the issues the car had ? Those same issues you don't want to accept because they won't let you belittle Seb the way you are trying to do

But again, we did see a functioning RedBull at the last Q2 moment, at the very last moment they could
'save' it, but it was too late; they had the bad luck of running into a crashed raikkonen. Had raikkonen
not crashed, Seb would have made Q3. Barely, but still.
again, you don't know that. Sector times showed Vettel was still slower than P10 on that lap when he crossed S1

the simple fact is still: Seb had the possibility of a working car to his hands. they opted to go another route.
it still resulted in Daniel walking over seb, like he still did all weekend.

there is no such fact... the only fact as far as we know is that Vettel had software issues at the end of FP3, and those issues were recurrent in qualifying, as Renault have admitted. But then again, you don't want to believe that. It's ok if you don't want to, but until you have proof of anything else, you opinion remains and opinion, or a wish, but not a fact.

about these press releases; they're making 'statements', but a statement does not have to hold the complete
truth. And history has proven, the truth is not always stated accordingly. There is a difference between lying
and telling the truth.
And as history has proven, there is always people who will not let the facts in their way when they have a preconceived opinion of a driver and are desperate to prove he is not as good as those facts tell us
I hope they solve the problems and we can see both drivers going all in, but until then this discussion of which one is better should be put on hold :-({|=

muhammad-13
muhammad-13
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Joined: 25 Jan 2014, 15:43

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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Here are my thoughts form what i understand.

Vettel is finding very difficult to drive 2014 car because he is not used to drive with so much torque. It just does not suit his driving style. He is used to drive cars with so much down force and a planted rear end with almost no wheel spin. So Red Bull found In P1 that Vettel won't be driving so good in this car so they wanted to give him a car that is more to his liking and played with engine maps and software to control the torque. This same thing happened in 2012 when he was struggling at the start of the season. And I am pretty confident that it would be Vettel who demanded the change in cars software and maps because he surely didn't wanted to get out-qualified and out-raced by a new and less experienced team mate.

Vettel adapted EBD so good that it is very hard for him to turn back and change his driving style quickly, unlike Riccardo.

mnmracer
mnmracer
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Joined: 17 Sep 2011, 23:41

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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Only a fool would make judgement calls when one of the cars was malfunction in 83% in the sessions it took part in.

alexx_88
alexx_88
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Joined: 28 Aug 2011, 10:46
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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Still, Manoah2u has a point.

If Vettel's car was hit by software problems in FP3, why not copy the one that Ricciardo was using? It's obvious that they had a good enough (for P2) working solution on one side of the garage, what were they trying to do on Vettel's car? It's obvious that we are not getting the full picture here.

mnmracer
mnmracer
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Joined: 17 Sep 2011, 23:41

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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alexx_88 wrote:Still, Manoah2u has a point.

If Vettel's car was hit by software problems in FP3, why not copy the one that Ricciardo was using? It's obvious that they had a good enough (for P2) working solution on one side of the garage, what were they trying to do on Vettel's car? It's obvious that we are not getting the full picture here.
I believe neither you nor I possess the knowledge of Formula 1 cars to know whether or not that was a viable option, but since they didn't, it's safe to assume it is not as simple as simple as downloading Adobe Reader update 3.346245676763bzxu.

basti313
basti313
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Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: Infiniti RedBull Racing 2014

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alexx_88 wrote:Still, Manoah2u has a point.

If Vettel's car was hit by software problems in FP3, why not copy the one that Ricciardo was using?
He had the same software for qually with a special mapping for the new sensor, but his engineers gave him the wrong mapping (just a number to pick on the steering wheel).
Why they did not use the same mapping as for Ric? Possibly just no communication in the garage during qually. Silly fault in the garage, not more.
Don`t russel the hamster!