Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2014

[Manoah2u]

Still, Manoah2u has a point.

If Vettel's car was hit by software problems in FP3, why not copy the one that Ricciardo was using?

He had the same software for qually with a special mapping for the new sensor, but his engineers gave him the wrong mapping (just a number to pick on the steering wheel).
Why they did not use the same mapping as for Ric? Possibly just no communication in the garage during qually. Silly fault in the garage, not more.

arguably virtually impossible at a team such as Redbull with a reigning world champion whom will/logically automatically gets benefit over the 'new guy'.
the simple fact remains; even if they really did make such a ' mindblowing' mistake, - supposedly a 'silly fault' - then they could still have easily switched it pre-race. they certainly were quite busy on vettel's car just before the race. So they had all the material, all the software and all the posibilities at hand. But for some reason, they didn't, and then, when the race commenced, it was too late.

I got the impression seeing patterns of Vettel's car not functioning 'correctly', similar as to how it behaved during (parts of) testing. It even sounded the same when it went for the grid.
This to me suggests RedBull didn't have a bad car at all, all along - but they were trying to 'play' around during testing on a 'theoretical' setup that might give the RB10 a big extra. They still haven't worked that out, and imho, that's what happened this weekend.

So yes, again, there were tech issues with vettel's car, but seemingly that was the result of a setting they 'stubbornly' maintained or kept using, because again - Ricky's car purred like a kitten. That fact tells you all you need to know. Simple as that.

[basti313]

Still, Manoah2u has a point.

If Vettel's car was hit by software problems in FP3, why not copy the one that Ricciardo was using?

He had the same software for qually with a special mapping for the new sensor, but his engineers gave him the wrong mapping (just a number to pick on the steering wheel).
Why they did not use the same mapping as for Ric? Possibly just no communication in the garage during qually. Silly fault in the garage, not more.

impossible at a team at Redbull with a reigning world champion whom will automatically gets benefit over the 'new guy'.
and the simple fact remains; even if they really did make such a mindblowing mistake, supposedly a 'silly fault', then they could still have easily switched it pre-race. they certainly were busy on vettel's car just before the race. But for some reason, they didn't, and then, when the race commenced, it was too late.

For the race they corrected the error and during the installation lap and first warm up lap the car was ok. In the second warm up lap something else (I think it was the turbo?), not software related, went wrong.

You would safe much time if you would inform yourself instead of posting pages of wrong conclusions that you base on wrong facts.

[NTS]

Note that Ricciardo also had an issue with the turbo when starting the car before the race. They had to power-cycle it to get it going, confirmed by Horner. So maybe the same problem started to affect Seb but a reset didn't fix it this time?

Edit: Source -> http://www.speedcafe.com/2014/03/16/hor ... rbo-scare/

[Jon_S]

Here are my thoughts form what i understand.

Vettel is finding very difficult to drive 2014 car because he is not used to drive with so much torque. It just does not suit his driving style. He is used to drive cars with so much down force and a planted rear end with almost no wheel spin. So Red Bull found In P1 that Vettel won't be driving so good in this car so they wanted to give him a car that is more to his liking and played with engine maps and software to control the torque. This same thing happened in 2012 when he was struggling at the start of the season. And I am pretty confident that it would be Vettel who demanded the change in cars software and maps because he surely didn't wanted to get out-qualified and out-raced by a new and less experienced team mate.

Vettel adapted EBD so good that it is very hard for him to turn back and change his driving style quickly, unlike Riccardo.

Yes, because that '07 BMW in which he became the youngest driver ever to score points in his first race (record broken by Kvyat this weekend), and that '08 Toro Rosso in which he became the youngest driver to ever get a pole and win a race, finishing the championship 8th ahead of both RBRs, were cars with EBD and an obvious downforce advantage compared to their rivals.

He has already proven he can do very well without driving the best car before joining Red Bull, even if some people want/seem to forget. And he is quite good in the wet.
He'll be fine.

[Jon_S]

What I do see is Ricciardo dancing around Vettel this weekend, and i'm thoroughly impressed with that, becuase quite frankly, i really realy did not expect that. .

But he wasn't dancing around Vettel.... He was dancing around Vettel's broken car. Remember ? We've already explained that.

[hpras]

Maybe someone accidently flipped the 'Mark" switch on Sebastian's car?

[alexx_88]

Rain wouldn't have affected the performance of the RB diffuser, so basically, no matter the conditions, they would still have more downforce than the rest. Mastering of the counter-intuitive driving style that the blown diffuser required is what made Vettel great during these past years. That's not to say that he won't master this new formula as well, but we'll have to wait and see.

[seinfeld]

I hope this is the right place to talk about the Fuel flow sensor.
some things worry me. now Redbull can work out how much they are using very simply. Also my stupid math-less brain can work out if a race goes on for 1 hour 32 minutes 58 seconds + warmup laps, and parade lap, and still have enough for fuel sample. that 100kg lasted 1 hour 40 mins tells me less then 100kg/h were flowing!

This essentially means. The FIA can control the pace of ANYONE and change the outcome of the race if they so deemed or wanted too! And I think that's what RBR were thinking here.

the fuel flow rate is there to limit the horsepower right? as I would have them run 110kg/hour for 2/3 race then just back the engines right off to 90kg/h for last 1/3rd of the race. but that is actually illegal now right? they need to stay within the 100kg/hr no matter how slow they plan to run??
This is why it needs to be removed. we know they have 1/3rd smaller fuel tank. so if they make it to the end of the race then they obviously saved fuel still. whats the big deal.

Can anyone help work out how much fuel RBR actually used at the race?

[beelsebob]

I hope this is the right place to talk about the Fuel flow sensor.
some things worry me. now Redbull can work out how much they are using very simply. Also my stupid math-less brain can work out if a race goes on for 1 hour 32 minutes 58 seconds + warmup laps, and parade lap, and still have enough for fuel sample. that 100kg lasted 1 hour 40 mins tells me less then 100kg/h were flowing!

As I commented in other threads. It has nothing at all to do with average fuel flow, and everything to do with maximum.

[joseff]

This has been explained repeatedly in this thread, the other threads, and numerous other F1 websites.
I wish someone from FIA or FOM made the extra effort to explain this to the fans.

[Jef Patat]

It's just one of that many technical details. You can't explain everything to the fans. This detail just happened to draw a lot of attention because of the disqualification.

[turbof1]

It's that time of year again: Spring.

Trees start to blossom, birds start to breed. You see here and there an early butterfly.
And oh, the name Vettel starts to give members all around the hibbee jibbees. And suddenly everybody has to give everybody a hard time.

You have to know I'm pretty visual about things. When I read such 'skirmishes', they always look to me like this:
http://youtu.be/s35etSqDeF8?t=1m43s

I really loved to avoid this during my first day as moderator, but I'm given a task: to be a nice parent and spank the crap out of all the troublemakers.

We've had several complaints about fanboyism in general, and somehow it didn't stop despite the best efforts previously was put in. We'll put in from now on a zero tolerance (that means banning!) towards this. We absolutely support a friendly fanbase for your favorite driver, but when you start bickering and spoil it for people who just want to get some nice info on the team, we have to step in.

I moved the crappy posts to the yin yang topic.

[Juzh]

Red bull supremo threatens RB could quit f1
http://www.f1times.co.uk/news/display/08663

[turbof1]

These kinds of threats have lost their value -how many team owners have live up to that?- and this looks more to be putting pressure then anything else. Though he makes several good points towards the end of the article: it's absurd they are only a but faster then gp2, while the cost of running a F1 team is so much higher.

[Gridlock]

As long as they remember to take all 4 cars*, good riddance.

(Still think RBR having to race two fewer cars than everyone else is 151c)

*and can find someone to keep making payroll. Maybe one from Wolfsburg.