2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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Jef Patat
Jef Patat
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Joined: 06 May 2011, 14:40

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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Rikhart wrote:
ACJJ619 wrote:If Mercedes are over a second faster than everyone else due to the engine, where does the 1.5/2 second advantage to their nearest Mercedes powered rival come from? They're near enough two seconds quicker than any other Mercedes powered car - it can't all be engine.

Make no mistake - that is a very, very good chassis.
Dont underestimate being the factory mercedes team... I would bet they keep all the latest/best engine stuff (software ofc) for themselves.
I can I agree to some extend, but 2s? I don't buy that. Most probably a combination of a) being privileged and b) having a very good chassis/aero

beelsebob
beelsebob
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Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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ACJJ619 wrote:So would you not expect Red Bull to shine in sector two if their chassis is 'so much better'?
Yes, and in the rain. Incidentally, these are the two places where Merc did not have a huge advantage.

f1ssk
f1ssk
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Joined: 19 May 2010, 04:02

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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IMo..
The difference in Lewis and Nico is understanding the "feel" of the car.
With superior fuel consumption and faster lap times for lewis, how you manage your 'coast and brake' makes a difference with same chassis and engine. Lewis believes this is a factor that differentiates. He eludes to this a number of times in his interviews. But, also.. when leading the race you have a clearer mind to spot your braking points, an uncluttered mind if you will.
if the roles were switched, Nico was P1 he would have been about 10sec ahead of Lewis, ill bet not 17.3, come end of the race.
This year, I believe among teammates the superior driver would be the one who can master the 'coast and brake'.

henra
henra
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Joined: 11 Mar 2012, 19:34

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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f1ssk wrote: This year, I believe among teammates the superior driver would be the one who can master the 'coast and brake'.
Which is in my eyes a tiny bit sad state of affairs for the 'pinnacle of Motorsports'....
Am I getting old if I find this un- inspiring?

With the more difficult to drive cars I had hoped for more action on track yet it seems the accompanying measures have nullified that opportunity.

myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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beelsebob wrote:
ACJJ619 wrote:So would you not expect Red Bull to shine in sector two if their chassis is 'so much better'?
Yes, and in the rain. Incidentally, these are the two places where Merc did not have a huge advantage.
The rain is a hugely unpredictable indicator though. It does equalise out engine power to a large degree, but the tyres themselves change the aero on the cars (some more so than others) thanks to their larger diameter and tread pattern, a suspension setup that works well in the dry in conserving the tyres can cause them to lose temperature in the wet, there is slightly more lap by lap viation from the drivers so ultimate times don't always reflect true pace, and one or other engine will be more drivable in the wet. Out of those I'd say the engine power equlisation, change in aero, and laptime variation have probably played into Red Bull's hands a little and Merc have benefitted from more drivability. Tyre temps I'm not so sure about, possibly a fraction in Red Bull's favour as Merc definitely have better tyre life in the dry races but it's very hard to say. My gut feel from watching all the running in the first two races is that in the wet the Merc still has a tenth or two in hand but it is much closer.

Fact remains that Red Bull haven't beaten Mercedes in the wet and they certainly aren't streets ahead unless you think the drivers have underperformed. So it can't all be down to engine. With equal engines I can't see there being more than a tenth or two between them, possibly in Red Bull's favour.

Incidentally the gap between Hamilton's fastest lap and Massa's, the next non-works Mercedes team, was broadly similar to the gap between Vettel's fastest and Grosjean's Lotus as the next best Renault powered car. Personally I think the Williams is a better car than the Lotus, but again there's little evidence that Mercs gap over Red Bull is 100% engine.

myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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f1ssk wrote:IMo..
The difference in Lewis and Nico is understanding the "feel" of the car.
With superior fuel consumption and faster lap times for lewis, how you manage your 'coast and brake' makes a difference with same chassis and engine. Lewis believes this is a factor that differentiates. He eludes to this a number of times in his interviews. But, also.. when leading the race you have a clearer mind to spot your braking points, an uncluttered mind if you will.
if the roles were switched, Nico was P1 he would have been about 10sec ahead of Lewis, ill bet not 17.3, come end of the race.
This year, I believe among teammates the superior driver would be the one who can master the 'coast and brake'.
Lewis has also put it down to being comfortable in this years car. He pointed out he was never comfortable with last years, it always felt slightly off to him, and that this year it's his and he feels right at home. This is the kind of performance he can turn in when he's entirely comfortable with the machinery.

Rosberg had plenty of time in free air where he was free to find a rhythm and Lewis was always a tenth or two quicker. It will ebb and flow between the two throughout the season but my money is on Lewis really shining this year as long as the car remains reliable. Should be closer in Bahrain as they'll both have good baseline setups and a good feel for the car there, but as they have to adapt to each track on the calendar I expect Lewis's natural feel to give him the upper hand.

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ringo
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Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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The Mercedes engine package in the works team is not the same as in the customer teams.
The supporting equipment like radiators, batteries, etc. i feel are much much different.

I have this opinion because of what we can see going on with the redbull and lotus cars. Both cars have the same fundamental unit, but the works team, seems to have no issues with the unit over a race distance. This suggests that the Lotus unit must be drastically different.
I feel it's very much the same with Mercedes and it's customers.
For Sure!!

myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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ringo wrote:The Mercedes engine package in the works team is not the same as in the customer teams.
The supporting equipment like radiators, batteries, etc. i feel are much much different.

I have this opinion because of what we can see going on with the redbull and lotus cars. Both cars have the same fundamental unit, but the works team, seems to have no issues with the unit over a race distance. This suggests that the Lotus unit must be drastically different.
I feel it's very much the same with Mercedes and it's customers.
I was under the impression that each team designed many of their own ancillaries. Hence certain teams having water-air intercoolers and others having air-air. This is true of the Ferrari and Merc works teams vs their customer teams. With the Renault Red Bull stated their designed their own battery pack and hardware but then had to switch supplier to get more reliability from their batteries.

They all also write their own software that co-ordinates everything. Red Bull and Torro Rosso are rumoured to be sharing software after RBR had issues with their own. Merc and Ferrari no doubt gain advantage over their customer teams through better software.

But if Merc are doing a better job than Red Bull in this, then they are simply doing a better job of packaging the car. It would be wrong to lump that in with the engine as it's always be this way, and they have no inherent advantage over Ferrari or technically Red Bull who are supposed to be Renault's factory team.

Emerson.F
Emerson.F
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Joined: 20 Dec 2012, 22:25
Location: Amsterdam

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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henra wrote:
f1ssk wrote: This year, I believe among teammates the superior driver would be the one who can master the 'coast and brake'.
Which is in my eyes a tiny bit sad state of affairs for the 'pinnacle of Motorsports'....
Am I getting old if I find this un- inspiring?

With the more difficult to drive cars I had hoped for more action on track yet it seems the accompanying measures have nullified that opportunity.
They dont have to master it, Brundle said that Redbull uses beeps for the driver when to coast and lift. That means they have a set timing based on a perfect lap that was probably calibrated in the free pratice sessions.


Toto mentioned Nico might have had some setup issues.


Nice insights of how Lewis feels about the car.
Last edited by Emerson.F on 30 Mar 2014, 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
Supporting: Ham/Alo/Kimi/Ros/Seb/Hulk/Ric/Mag

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fets81
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Joined: 02 Feb 2012, 19:02

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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just thinking out loud but the regs this year call for each competitor to nominate their forward gear ratios, so I assume when it states "each competitor" it means driver not team?

If so is it possible hamiltons gears were just better suited to malaysia than nico's & maybe this had something to do with how hamilton was able to use less fuel?
"I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party" - Ron White

Emerson.F
Emerson.F
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Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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Claire really dropped the ball today. That must have been humiliating for Massa. Bad call Claire, bad call.

Supporting: Ham/Alo/Kimi/Ros/Seb/Hulk/Ric/Mag

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siskue2005
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Joined: 11 May 2007, 21:50

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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dont forget that Vettel finished 24sec behind Lewis today
and Dani also finished 24sec behind Nico in Aus....it could be that there are no one in between the two teams and making it look as if Redbull are closer

in 2013 Mercs were just 12sec behind at malaysia in similar conditions
Last edited by siskue2005 on 30 Mar 2014, 20:31, edited 1 time in total.

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Joined: 29 Feb 2012, 08:47

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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I wouldn't put Mercedes' performance advantage to just the engine. These engines are a lot torquier than before. I'd assume that in order for them to make good use of that engine's potential, they'll need to have both aero and mechanical setup in proper order. I think both the car and the engine are very good.

ACJJ619
ACJJ619
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Joined: 28 Jan 2014, 15:23

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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Vettel was quicker than Hamilton in the speed trap. What will it take to put this "Mercedes are only winning cause of the engine" myth to bed?

Source: http://184.106.145.74/f1-championship/f ... ap_V01.pdf

JimClarkFan
JimClarkFan
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Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: 2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

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henra wrote:
f1ssk wrote: This year, I believe among teammates the superior driver would be the one who can master the 'coast and brake'.
Which is in my eyes a tiny bit sad state of affairs for the 'pinnacle of Motorsports'....
Am I getting old if I find this un- inspiring?

With the more difficult to drive cars I had hoped for more action on track yet it seems the accompanying measures have nullified that opportunity.
I LOVE the new engines, I hate the fuel saving.